Serama Indoor Pet - Managing Smell?

[JaeG]

I found that fermenting my quail feed meant I could keep them indoors. It massively reduced the smell they produced. Here's a thread all about it (I'll link you to the page with links to scientific research):
https://www.backyardchickens.com/threads/fermented-feeds-anyone-using-them.645057/page-876

And here's an article about how to ferment - its easy:
https://tikktok.wordpress.com/2014/04/13/fermented-feed-faq/

 

[Altfrizzle]

Does the moisture from wetting the pellets cause any concern in the coop?

No, because I put them in before it started getting cold, and the amount of water it takes to "dissolve" them is less than the amount to actually make the rest feel wet. It's really just absorbed and they don't really even feel damp if you mix it up well.

 

[EggSighted4Life]

As you have seen it is perfectly ok to have two roos, you only get issues with multiple roos if there are ladies to compete for

I agree that two roos can live together, but disagree about them only having issues if there is ladies to compete over. Just like us, they will sometimes have disagreements with their room mates. Sometimes it will escalate way beyond what is acceptable. Yes, I have 4 roos living in a stag pen with the ladies next door. In addition I have seen people who keep two roos in their breeding pen without issues. Every situation will be different.

I'm putting in is galvanized steel welded wire

It's the being in constant contact with their weight on their feet. It more of an over use on hard wire than it is about the wire actually making instant cuts. It's long term exposure of them placing all their weight on their feet. And Poo gets stuck in it instead of falling through, depending on how large your opening are, even 1/2 inch. I imagine chicken poo is a bit larger than pigeon poo. Larger diameter wire will probably hurt less than than thinner diameter as it spreads the load out a little more. Chickens like to scratch and they are practically hatched doing so. It's so cute to see how naturally it comes to them. A wire bottom will never work well long term IMO. They need a flat bottom with shavings or other bedding. Think, a shoe doesn't cut you foot... but pace a round in it long enough it can rub sore spots that develop into blisters and eventually wounds we might call cuts. Similar type thing.

What is PDZ? I intend to add a hen, what is the best way to do that? Ideally the hen will be brooding her own eggs but I was advised to just remove her when the time comes and set her up in a large sterilite tub so the rooster doesn't attack them. I only have one friend who keeps chickens which means he's my only source of information so I apologize if anything I say isn't proper protocol.

Well, now you have BYC too. And you will get lot's of answers and opinions as what works for some simply will not work for others. We have different set ups, environments and perspectives.

PDZ is a horse stall freshener. I believe it's derived from natural minerals, but not 100% sure. It works really well to absorb ammonia smell. DE is diatomaceous earth derived form dead diatoms that have microscopic sharp cutting edges is used for some absorbent things and to cut micro scratches into insects. Beware of the FALSE uses people tout. It is also used to keep feeds from clumping. DL is deep liter. Here is a link to an acronym list for your future reference...
https://www.backyardchickens.com/articles/acronym-list-for-byc.64740/

Fermenting is as simple as placing feed with water and let it sit a few days until it sours, then feed it out before it sours too far.

I'm pretty sure Aspen is a brand name that sells both cedar and pine shavings.

As far as a hen goes... first of all I would quit buying birds at that auction. People take birds to auctions for a reason. Very often illness can be spread and you DON'T want to bring it home to your place. (Ask any number of people who have dealt with it). Second, if you want a hen to brood then it must be a broody breed to help ensure your success instead of frustration. But let's be honest... all this going on in doors seems like a nightmare. If your place isn't big enough to have some outdoor access, I might reconsider waiting for a new situation. A pigeon is one thing, a CROWING rooster is another. And if you think they ONLY crow when the sun comes up, think again! They crow to compete for the ladies, to warn predators, because they heard something, because a light flashed, for no reason at all. Mine start crowing around 3:30 EVERY morning! Might be a problem if you have neighbors. Maybe you will use a crow collar? Ya, I wouldn't be inclined to do diapers either.

Anyway, your friend is partly wrong about roosters killing chicks. A teenager, that's different. But a rooster will protect chicks as they are very likely his offspring. He will call them to treats and protect them. It really is quite a special thing to see! Any roo who attacks chicks is NOT welcome here, and I don't really ever have that issue. But what will you do with the chicks and extra cockerels that you get? Hatching comes with a fair share of responsibilities. Will you be OK if someone is going to eat the males they get or must they ALL find happily ever after homes for you to be happy? Mama hen will not be satisfied to just sit around, she will want to take her babies out exploring and teach them to forage. You may be able to sprout or grow fodder to help with enrichment. I'm certainly not saying it can't be done, just that there will be plenty of challenges. My birds all eat the Purina flock raiser crumbles which is 20% protein and only about 1% calcium with oyster shell on the side for layers. If I was only buying for one boy, I might consider any grower/raiser/finisher (really all just confusing words) that has about 18% protein and still 1%ish calcium. In addition, I would consider going in on a bag with someone or buying smaller bags if available as the farther it gets away from mill date, nutrients do diminish, according to studies.

I do usually recommend friends. I personally would consider keeping him single. Yes, they are social creatures. They can socialize with you and still be content, depends on the individual. But while getting him a hen might make him happy, doesn't make it fair to a hen per say... I don't know for sure what I would do, but putting the thought process out there for you anyways.

Sorry if these have already been said... I'm still catching up to the end of the thread.

OH BUT WAIT... there's more! If you think poo smell is bad now, just wait until the first time you smell a broody poo! they are every bit as bad as having a dog poo right next to your head. Because they will hold it the whole time they are sitting on the nest and run out once or twice a day to relieve themselves. Will she be able to get far enough away from her nest to be comfy doing that? Yes, way too much info inside my head.

 

[Chickassan]

It's true, but op's roo is about the size of a can of beans so any squabbles are an easy fix with a time out shoebox or something of that nature.

I agree that two roos can live together, but disagree about them only having issues if there is ladies to compete over. Just like us, they will sometimes have disagreements with their room mates. Sometimes it will escalate way beyond what is acceptable. Yes, I have 4 roos living in a stag pen with the ladies next door. In addition I have seen people who keep two roos in their breeding pen without issues. Every situation will be different.

It's the being in constant contact with their weight on their feet. It more of an over use on hard wire than it is about the wire actually making instant cuts. It's long term exposure of them placing all their weight on their feet. And Poo gets stuck in it instead of falling through, depending on how large your opening are, even 1/2 inch. I imagine chicken poo is a bit larger than pigeon poo. Larger diameter wire will probably hurt less than than thinner diameter as it spreads the load out a little more. Chickens like to scratch and they are practically hatched doing so. It's so cute to see how naturally it comes to them. A wire bottom will never work well long term IMO. They need a flat bottom with shavings or other bedding. Think, a shoe doesn't cut you foot... but pace a round in it long enough it can rub sore spots that develop into blisters and eventually wounds we might call cuts. Similar type thing.

Well, now you have BYC too. And you will get lot's of answers and opinions as what works for some simply will not work for others. We have different set ups, environments and perspectives.

PDZ is a horse stall freshener. I believe it's derived from natural minerals, but not 100% sure. It works really well to absorb ammonia smell. DE is diatomaceous earth derived form dead diatoms that have microscopic sharp cutting edges is used for some absorbent things and to cut micro scratches into insects. Beware of the FALSE uses people tout. It is also used to keep feeds from clumping. DL is deep liter. Here is a link to an acronym list for your future reference...
https://www.backyardchickens.com/articles/acronym-list-for-byc.64740/

Fermenting is as simple as placing feed with water and let it sit a few days until it sours, then feed it out before it sours too far.

I'm pretty sure Aspen is a brand name that sells both cedar and pine shavings.

As far as a hen goes... first of all I would quit buying birds at that auction. People take birds to auctions for a reason. Very often illness can be spread and you DON'T want to bring it home to your place. (Ask any number of people who have dealt with it). Second, if you want a hen to brood then it must be a broody breed to help ensure your success instead of frustration. But let's be honest... all this going on in doors seems like a nightmare. If your place isn't big enough to have some outdoor access, I might reconsider waiting for a new situation. A pigeon is one thing, a CROWING rooster is another. And if you think they ONLY crow when the sun comes up, think again! They crow to compete for the ladies, to warn predators, because they heard something, because a light flashed, for no reason at all. Mine start crowing around 3:30 EVERY morning! Might be a problem if you have neighbors. Maybe you will use a crow collar? Ya, I wouldn't be inclined to do diapers either.

Anyway, your friend is partly wrong about roosters killing chicks. A teenager, that's different. But a rooster will protect chicks as they are very likely his offspring. He will call them to treats and protect them. It really is quite a special thing to see! Any roo who attacks chicks is NOT welcome here, and I don't really ever have that issue. But what will you do with the chicks and extra cockerels that you get? Hatching comes with a fair share of responsibilities. Will you be OK if someone is going to eat the males they get or must they ALL find happily ever after homes for you to be happy? Mama hen will not be satisfied to just sit around, she will want to take her babies out exploring and teach them to forage. You may be able to sprout or grow fodder to help with enrichment. I'm certainly not saying it can't be done, just that there will be plenty of challenges. My birds all eat the Purina flock raiser crumbles which is 20% protein and only about 1% calcium with oyster shell on the side for layers. If I was only buying for one boy, I might consider any grower/raiser/finisher (really all just confusing words) that has about 18% protein and still 1%ish calcium. In addition, I would consider going in on a bag with someone or buying smaller bags if available as the farther it gets away from mill date, nutrients do diminish, according to studies.

I do usually recommend friends. I personally would consider keeping him single. Yes, they are social creatures. They can socialize with you and still be content, depends on the individual. But while getting him a hen might make him happy, doesn't make it fair to a hen per say... I don't know for sure what I would do, but putting the thought process out there for you anyways.

Sorry if these have already been said... I'm still catching up to the end of the thread.

OH BUT WAIT... there's more! If you think poo smell is bad now, just wait until the first time you smell a broody poo! they are every bit as bad as having a dog poo right next to your head. Because they will hold it the whole time they are sitting on the nest and run out once or twice a day to relieve themselves. Will she be able to get far enough away from her nest to be comfy doing that? Yes, way too much info inside my head.

 

[EggSighted4Life]

It's true, but op's roo is about the size of a can of beans so any squabbles are an easy fix with a time out shoebox or something of that nature.

It's not the size of the chicken in the fight but the size of the fight in the chicken. Even a can of beans could *probably* fight to the death if not at least good injuries. I have bantams too, they don't seem to know they aren't pit bulls. Maybe Serama's are easier going than Silkies??? One can only institute a time out if you are home and if there is nowhere to escape to for the bird on the receiving end of the beating before you discover them, then what? Hormones are a bit unpredictable, and you just never know when one day somebody snaps and decides they've had enough. Again, I'm not saying it can't be done. But being aware that a chicken is still a chicken regardless of size can allow you to be better prepared if the situation does arise. I keep my Silkies and my French Black Copper Marans together. An alleged docile breed with a know fighting background breed. I have a lead Silkie and a lead Marans. Yes, the Silkie puts everyone else (there used to be more) except the other head guy... on the run! If it came down to it, just guessing the Marans on the run would tear the Silkie boy a new one. But it's about personalities and ALL birds are individuals. So many people try to tout their 6 month old "roo" as friendly or good with kids... They DON'T know yet what the truth will be once hormones kick in. I've raised 2 teenagers in addition to being one myself once, and many animals that go through that hormonal phase. It's a difficult time in life for everyone. I've had boys NOT raised together get along fine and live happily ever after. And I've had boys raised together one day finally decide one or the other had to go. My head Marans (actual) rooster is still around because he allows integration into the stag pen. He breaks up fights, calls boys to treats, and only looked cross eyed at me ONCE! He let's the ladies groom his comb and waddles through the fence, even picking at scabs he got from scuffles... because scuffles DO happen. Yes, I agree that time outs CAN be effective.. though not always. Even use them on hens or chicks sometimes if needed.

Yes a single male and female CAN still result in over mating. Maturity may have an impact on that in addition to personality.

I personally would NOT pre wet the the pellets being discussed. We use the same type thing for our fireplace. Many people have said they work well as litter, though I haven't tried them YET. Seems like they will moisten and break up pretty fast from the birds defecating and pre-moistening would simply diminish their longevity. Again, no personal experience so they might be right about pre-wetting working best. I do love that this is a natural product that is a byproduct of something already being done. So it's not like extra trees are being cut down but rather the waste material is being re-purposed. I'm not sure how true that is for regular shavings.

Let me end by saying, I really enjoy your signature line @Chickassan . It's both pretty accurate and amusing!

 

[Szulptist]

It's the being in constant contact with their weight on their feet. It more of an over use on hard wire than it is about the wire actually making instant cuts. It's long term exposure of them placing all their weight on their feet. And Poo gets stuck in it instead of falling through, depending on how large your opening are, even 1/2 inch. I imagine chicken poo is a bit larger than pigeon poo. Larger diameter wire will probably hurt less than than thinner diameter as it spreads the load out a little more. Chickens like to scratch and they are practically hatched doing so. It's so cute to see how naturally it comes to them. A wire bottom will never work well long term IMO. They need a flat bottom with shavings or other bedding. Think, a shoe doesn't cut you foot... but pace a round in it long enough it can rub sore spots that develop into blisters and eventually wounds we might call cuts. Similar type thing.

Due to the birds extremely small size, by comparison to it's little feet, the gauge is pretty thick, it isn't pictured because it hasn't been implemented yet. The droppings from this bird are roughly the same size as that of my pigeons, sometimes smaller. Pigeons range in size tremendously, some as large as a fully grown macaw (Old German Cropper) to that of a ringneck dove (Portuguese tumbler) so dropping size of a pigeon can be drastically different from breed to breed. I also personally own a pair of Old German Croppers and a Portuguese tumbler so I am fully aware of what that looks like firsthand . I disagree on the shoe analogy. When I was young I walked bare-foot everywhere I went and because of this I was able to walk on concrete, cement and any number of uncomfortable surfaces without damaging my feet or causing discomfort. I would imagine like pigeons, chickens have sturdy feet that are well adapted to the challenges of a rough terrain. His perch is a smooth wood so if for any reason he wants to get off the mesh he has an option. I will also be letting him out more frequently so the soft carpet will be a nice refreshing stroll for him. If he was a broiler I can understand his immense weight causing damage to his feet but since he's roughly 10 oz I imagine he'll be alright. I will be sure to inspect his feet daily in case I am wrong. I will also likely add a wood square in the corner of the cage for a soft foot rest and he can scratch to his hearts content when roaming freely.

Well, now you have BYC too. And you will get lot's of answers and opinions as what works for some simply will not work for others. We have different set ups, environments and perspectives.

Excellent, I look forward to it

PDZ is a horse stall freshener. I believe it's derived from natural minerals, but not 100% sure. It works really well to absorb ammonia smell. DE is diatomaceous earth derived form dead diatoms that have microscopic sharp cutting edges is used for some absorbent things and to cut micro scratches into insects. Beware of the FALSE uses people tout. It is also used to keep feeds from clumping. DL is deep liter. Here is a link to an acronym list for your future reference...
https://www.backyardchickens.com/articles/acronym-list-for-byc.64740/

Fermenting is as simple as placing feed with water and let it sit a few days until it sours, then feed it out before it sours too far.

I'm pretty sure Aspen is a brand name that sells both cedar and pine shavings.

Thank you for the information, I sincerely appreciate it.

As far as a hen goes... first of all I would quit buying birds at that auction. People take birds to auctions for a reason. Very often illness can be spread and you DON'T want to bring it home to your place. (Ask any number of people who have dealt with it). Second, if you want a hen to brood then it must be a broody breed to help ensure your success instead of frustration. But let's be honest... all this going on in doors seems like a nightmare. If your place isn't big enough to have some outdoor access, I might reconsider waiting for a new situation. A pigeon is one thing, a CROWING rooster is another. And if you think they ONLY crow when the sun comes up, think again! They crow to compete for the ladies, to warn predators, because they heard something, because a light flashed, for no reason at all. Mine start crowing around 3:30 EVERY morning! Might be a problem if you have neighbors. Maybe you will use a crow collar? Ya, I wouldn't be inclined to do diapers either.

lol I appreciate your concern, I have long known that roosters crow whenever they feel like it, I used to feed one of my friends chickens and was obsessed with owning a few when I was a kid. I was very certain before purchasing this bird to make the seller perfectly clear that I have no tolerance for loud or relentless noise. He assured me the bird is very quiet and not comparable to a full sized rooster. Fortunately he wasn't lying, the bird does crow continuously in the morning and if you're not near the basement you can't even hear it. It's very muted. It could be annoying if the bird was in my bedroom in the morning but in the basement you can't hear it unless you really look for it and you're fairly close to the door. I have also been informed that Seramas are perfectly good mothers and will go broody year round if provided the correct environment. I am very familiar with frustrating birds to breed, my primary pigeon breed is the Short Faced Budapest. They are EXTREMELY difficult to breed due to their tiny beaks and infrequent laying habits. Many of the babies can't even get out of the eggs due to their giant eyes and tiny beaks preventing them from chipping their way out. Here's a picture of one so you can understand what I'm referring to. The first picture required me to hand raise it at roughly that age using a curved syringe down it's crop. The second picture was taken in someone else's backyard for a pigeon club BBQ, if I had a backyard like that I'd probably keep most of them outside .

Anyway, your friend is partly wrong about roosters killing chicks. A teenager, that's different. But a rooster will protect chicks as they are very likely his offspring. He will call them to treats and protect them. It really is quite a special thing to see! Any roo who attacks chicks is NOT welcome here, and I don't really ever have that issue. But what will you do with the chicks and extra cockerels that you get? Hatching comes with a fair share of responsibilities. Will you be OK if someone is going to eat the males they get or must they ALL find happily ever after homes for you to be happy? Mama hen will not be satisfied to just sit around, she will want to take her babies out exploring and teach them to forage. You may be able to sprout or grow fodder to help with enrichment. I'm certainly not saying it can't be done, just that there will be plenty of challenges. My birds all eat the Purina flock raiser crumbles which is 20% protein and only about 1% calcium with oyster shell on the side for layers. If I was only buying for one boy, I might consider any grower/raiser/finisher (really all just confusing words) that has about 18% protein and still 1%ish calcium. In addition, I would consider going in on a bag with someone or buying smaller bags if available as the farther it gets away from mill date, nutrients do diminish, according to studies.

I do not intend to raise any chicks until I have found people who are interested in adopting them first. Many of my friends who keep pigeons also keep chickens. I never really discussed chickens with any of them before because I never really had a reason to ask. I know I mentioned only having one "chicken friend" but what I meant to say is that I only really have one friend whom I speak to on a regular basis who's primary birds are chickens. My other friends whom I see on a regular basis at club meetings and pigeon auctions may be interested in getting one or two of these guys. If you think chickens can end up meeting gruesome ends then you should look into live pigeon shoots in PA. I assure you I am not naive to the realities of what happens to people's re-homed birds, guinea pigs, rabbits and dogs. There are people who go to pigeon auctions to buy birds for shooting practice, some buy them to eat, others buy them to train their dogs. Some people buy birds and the bird has the wrong color or is sick and they kill the bird on the spot without a second thought. It is a horrific reality and I do my best to avoid giving birds to people such as these. Although I do not keep chickens I am fully aware that many master breeders will sooner kill their birds then sell them to someone else and the same sort of mentality is found in the pigeon hobby as well.

I picked up a 50 lb bag at Agway very recently, It's a hen laying mix with 16% protein. Hopefully that'll be sufficient. I can also mix in the gamebird crumbles if necessary to boost the protein up higher. I also bought grit.

I do usually recommend friends. I personally would consider keeping him single. Yes, they are social creatures. They can socialize with you and still be content, depends on the individual. But while getting him a hen might make him happy, doesn't make it fair to a hen per say... I don't know for sure what I would do, but putting the thought process out there for you anyways.

Sorry if these have already been said... I'm still catching up to the end of the thread.

OH BUT WAIT... there's more! If you think poo smell is bad now, just wait until the first time you smell a broody poo! they are every bit as bad as having a dog poo right next to your head. Because they will hold it the whole time they are sitting on the nest and run out once or twice a day to relieve themselves. Will she be able to get far enough away from her nest to be comfy doing that? Yes, way too much info inside my head.

This breed seems fairly mild mannered, I would imagine he wouldn't mate his hen companion to death. If the hens are small enough I might consider keeping two in there with him. I might also move them to a larger cage. We shall see.


Thank you for the reply.

Eric

 

[RoostersAreAwesome]

I picked up a 50 lb bag at Agway very recently, It's a hen laying mix with 16% protein. Hopefully that'll be sufficient. I can also mix in the gamebird crumbles if necessary to boost the protein up higher. I also bought grit.

Roosters and other non-laying chickens don't need the excess calcium in layer feed, and it can damage them if used for long-term. I suggest feeding flock raiser, all flock, or grower feed instead, with oyster shells on the side for the hen.

 

[DwayneNLiz]

beware of putting bedding down within your house, they tend to scratch and kick, make sure there is a skirt around the cage to keep the bedding INSIDE of it

also i use pelletized lime(stone) as a stall refresher, it also helps to increase soil ph (make less acidic)
i believe sweet pdz is mainly calcium carbonate aka barn lime

good luck!! they are sweet little birds and make great broody mothers!

 

[EggSighted4Life]

Due to the birds extremely small size, by comparison to it's little feet, the gauge is pretty thick, it isn't pictured because it hasn't been implemented yet. The droppings from this bird are roughly the same size as that of my pigeons, sometimes smaller. Pigeons range in size tremendously, some as large as a fully grown macaw (Old German Cropper) to that of a ringneck dove (Portuguese tumbler) so dropping size of a pigeon can be drastically different from breed to breed. I also personally own a pair of Old German Croppers and a Portuguese tumbler so I am fully aware of what that looks like firsthand . I disagree on the shoe analogy. When I was young I walked bare-foot everywhere I went and because of this I was able to walk on concrete, cement and any number of uncomfortable surfaces without damaging my feet or causing discomfort. I would imagine like pigeons, chickens have sturdy feet that are well adapted to the challenges of a rough terrain. His perch is a smooth wood so if for any reason he wants to get off the mesh he has an option. I will also be letting him out more frequently so the soft carpet will be a nice refreshing stroll for him. If he was a broiler I can understand his immense weight causing damage to his feet but since he's roughly 10 oz I imagine he'll be alright. I will be sure to inspect his feet daily in case I am wrong. I will also likely add a wood square in the corner of the cage for a soft foot rest and he can scratch to his hearts content when roaming freely.




Excellent, I look forward to it




Thank you for the information, I sincerely appreciate it.



lol I appreciate your concern, I have long known that roosters crow whenever they feel like it, I used to feed one of my friends chickens and was obsessed with owning a few when I was a kid. I was very certain before purchasing this bird to make the seller perfectly clear that I have no tolerance for loud or relentless noise. He assured me the bird is very quiet and not comparable to a full sized rooster. Fortunately he wasn't lying, the bird does crow continuously in the morning and if you're not near the basement you can't even hear it. It's very muted. It could be annoying if the bird was in my bedroom in the morning but in the basement you can't hear it unless you really look for it and you're fairly close to the door. I have also been informed that Seramas are perfectly good mothers and will go broody year round if provided the correct environment. I am very familiar with frustrating birds to breed, my primary pigeon breed is the Short Faced Budapest. They are EXTREMELY difficult to breed due to their tiny beaks and infrequent laying habits. Many of the babies can't even get out of the eggs due to their giant eyes and tiny beaks preventing them from chipping their way out. Here's a picture of one so you can understand what I'm referring to. The first picture required me to hand raise it at roughly that age using a curved syringe down it's crop. The second picture was taken in someone else's backyard for a pigeon club BBQ, if I had a backyard like that I'd probably keep most of them outside .

View attachment 1210816
View attachment 1210817




I do not intend to raise any chicks until I have found people who are interested in adopting them first. Many of my friends who keep pigeons also keep chickens. I never really discussed chickens with any of them before because I never really had a reason to ask. I know I mentioned only having one "chicken friend" but what I meant to say is that I only really have one friend whom I speak to on a regular basis who's primary birds are chickens. My other friends whom I see on a regular basis at club meetings and pigeon auctions may be interested in getting one or two of these guys. If you think chickens can end up meeting gruesome ends then you should look into live pigeon shoots in PA. I assure you I am not naive to the realities of what happens to people's re-homed birds, guinea pigs, rabbits and dogs. There are people who go to pigeon auctions to buy birds for shooting practice, some buy them to eat, others buy them to train their dogs. Some people buy birds and the bird has the wrong color or is sick and they kill the bird on the spot without a second thought. It is a horrific reality and I do my best to avoid giving birds to people such as these. Although I do not keep chickens I am fully aware that many master breeders will sooner kill their birds then sell them to someone else and the same sort of mentality is found in the pigeon hobby as well.

I picked up a 50 lb bag at Agway very recently, It's a hen laying mix with 16% protein. Hopefully that'll be sufficient. I can also mix in the gamebird crumbles if necessary to boost the protein up higher. I also bought grit.



This breed seems fairly mild mannered, I would imagine he wouldn't mate his hen companion to death. If the hens are small enough I might consider keeping two in there with him. I might also move them to a larger cage. We shall see.


Thank you for the reply.

Eric

Wow! couple of things...

I definitely wasn't considering quite such a small size when I'm thinking chicken. Awesome that you already have a landing pad area planned. I have used wire bottom (hardware cloth) kennels as broody breakers as suggested by many. But have moved to open bottom pens. They still pace the grass and dirt just as hard as long as they can't get to their nesting sight.

You do seem to have a pretty good grasp on quite a few things. Yes, I have also heard Serama were good mums. And I will have to agree that provided the correct environment (space, nutrition, & security) that a broody hen will go broody ANY time of year. I just put a lady in the breaker 2 days ago. I'm busy fighting off rats and not ready for chicks. Maybe something you won't have to face indoors?!

Thank you for opening my eyes to some other bird things. I knew people do buy for hunting and training purposes, but guess I had never really considered the fate being quite so traumatic since it isn't *usually* that bad with chickens. That might be a hard pill to swallow. I just know so many people on here are are very broken hearted when they do have to let go of a cockerel. Try to help them avoid that pain if possible. As harsh as that story you tell abut buying a wrong color bird and killing on the spot seems... I also get it, as a breeder I just hate to see people doing grave injustices to certain breeds. I'm not that hard core yet, though. I usually try to get birds I really don't want breeding into homes where I know that won't be a possibility.

Wasn't really thinking basement, we hardly have those here in CA. I was imagining your living room of an apartment.. People do it.

Oh gosh your pigeon is hilarious! And the pic of that boy in you hand definitely makes me want one of my own. My Silkies seem much larger than that. So did other previous bantams. But now I remember reading that Serama are supposed to be the world's smallest chicken?

Biggest issue with laying mix for your boy is... excess calcium CAN (doesn't mean will) cause kidney issues in non laying birds. However, excess protein COULD also cause the same thing (gout then kidney failure), but a different type. Some people feed ALL their birds layer and "never see a problem". Maybe they just don't notice what it does cause (guaranteed diminished growth in chicks). Since you got a bag of it already, I would mix it with the game bird feed to get a lower calcium content. A little more protein won't/shouldn't hurt him. Sometimes those things are about genetic predisposition and some birds will be more prone than others to different factors. You seem like you understand how to mix proportionately, I would aim for not more than 2% calcium or 22% protein. But just do you best somewhere there in the middle and you will be doing so much better than many others. To me it isn't about perfection, but balance. If your game birds won't be harmed by slight reduction in protein maybe mix some of the layer into their feed so you can go through it faster. Use your judgement of course, I know nothing about pigeons.

Remember, if you consider keeping two hens (and I probably would) they can be every bit as brutal as any rooster. But my top hen, a barred rock is pretty easy going. She makes her point but moves on quickly. One of my Silkie gals is close to the top and she is a relentless bee hive. I know my situation is ever changing and I roll with it essentially. So like you say.. who knows what kind of chicken math and bigger pen you might end up with! Sounds like you're up for an adventure though!!

ETA: I do get you calloused foot analogy. My sister goes everywhere barefoot but I won't walk across the room without my shoes. And when taking dogs hiking, we "break in" their feet, or start with shorter distances.

 

[EggSighted4Life]

also i use pelletized lime(stone) as a stall refresher, it also helps to increase soil ph (make less acidic)
i believe sweet pdz is mainly calcium carbonate aka barn lime

That's useful info, thanks for sharing.

I was just debating what to do with some I needed to remove that I used to soak up saturated wood. Wondering about adding to my compost. But many of my plants, like blueberries prefer acidic soil. So If I do things acidify my soil this would essentially be counter productive...

Plus, now I have a better understanding of HOW the PDZ works.