Show Off Your American Gamefowl and Chat Thread!!!

[Poultry Friend]

OK. So it sounds like this breed is kinda still in a stage where a uniform SOP is being set (since there are three standards)?

I do know they are not an egg production chicken, and we are fine with that. We plan on keeping Dominque and Java's for that- or crossing the American games with those breeds. I really want to keep the American Games to show standard and just eat the few eggs they give us (because- WOW! Creamy and rich! Yum!)

I would like to not alter these chickens too much by my own desire for them to be something they are not. I am not getting Java's for meat, but for what the breed is- Dual purpose with great free-ranging skills. To breed any of that out of them (to me) is wrong. To make them produce less eggs, become less broody and get bigger would be to create a new breed, that IMO would not be Javas anymore. Likewise with American games.

I really want to keep these birds because of what they are. Admittedly, I would like to see some Roos with less 'gameyness' but I also understand that they always will be, and that is part of this breed. If I want a breed with no game, I would need to look at another breed.

I guess where I was confused is you mention of performance. Were you speaking of how they raise chicks, protect the flock, free-range, ect? Or were you refering to their pit skills? I would never want to (or would) pit the birds to select the ones that have the most game.

I think I must have just misunderstood what you meant. :/ Sorry.

 

[centrarchid]

OK. So it sounds like this breed is kinda still in a stage where a uniform SOP is being set (since there are three standards)?

I do know they are not an egg production chicken, and we are fine with that. We plan on keeping Dominque and Java's for that- or crossing the American games with those breeds. I really want to keep the American Games to show standard and just eat the few eggs they give us (because- WOW! Creamy and rich! Yum!)

I would like to not alter these chickens too much by my own desire for them to be something they are not. I am not getting Java's for meat, but for what the breed is- Dual purpose with great free-ranging skills. To breed any of that out of them (to me) is wrong. To make them produce less eggs, become less broody and get bigger would be to create a new breed, that IMO would not be Javas anymore. Likewise with American games.

I really want to keep these birds because of what they are. Admittedly, I would like to see some Roos with less 'gameyness' but I also understand that they always will be, and that is part of this breed. If I want a breed with no game, I would need to look at another breed.

I guess where I was confused is you mention of performance. Were you speaking of how they raise chicks, protect the flock, free-range, ect? Or were you refering to their pit skills? I would never want to (or would) pit the birds to select the ones that have the most game.

I think I must have just misunderstood what you meant. :/ Sorry.

I meant pit skills. Many people do not recognize games as such unless pit quality is known.

Egg production of some American games is not all that shabby so long as they do not go broody. Some hens can produce a upto 120 eggs in a season with little or no supplmental feed if forage is good. The American game rooster can be used to cover the Dominique and Jave hens to produce first generation hybrids that are intermediate in production qualities but not game. The hybrid also muscles up well so cokcerels make great fryers.

Look into a breed called Kraienkoeppe. It is a recent game derivative with many of the qualities you are interested in. It would not be able to survive well in my free-range setting but tougher than most otherwise. Pester a fellow called "DTchickens" about the breed.

 

[Poultry Friend]

How can you know the pit quality of a line? Are certian lines from famous pit lines and that established the performance?

I guess I didn't think people still fought these birds...

I will be getting them, regardless, since hubby loves the eggs so much, and they are great free-range bug eaters! (And this year is really bad for bugs!)

I will ask the gentleman what line his are (I suspect they are from a hatchery, as the Dominiques seems to be hatchery quality) If he doesn't know, would there be any point in me trying to breed a good American Game, or would they be rather worthless without knowing the lines and the pit quality of that line?

It seems this breed is a little bit more 'working' then I had imagined it was. I was expecting it to have a show standard I could breed to, and that getting a good confirmed bird would mean it would be desireable. Looks like I might have been wrong in that assumption! LOL

Thank you so much for helping me. This is my first serious foray into chickens and I have a lot to learn. I guess I will pick out the best birds I can following those points you gave me and hope for the best.

 

[Mozelly]

Hello, I'm no expert but I have pair I got from an old gamer. I have a Dom cock and a whitehackle/Hatch cross hen. If they are true game you can not let them roam or be penned up with other cocks of any breed ,they will fight and it won't be pretty. As far as breeding that's up to you ,most people who are into gamefowl aren't interested in what someone is breeding in their backyard. They're into strains and fighting history as has been mentioned.

 

[Mozelly]

Let me add ,since cock fighting is illegal in the US,you can get some of these fowl at a reasonable price. Ebay is full of hatching eggs.
BUT for proven lines you'll pay big time prices.

 

[centrarchid]

Poultry Friend,

For your purposes a quality game line as in working is no advantage. As matter of fact a better option for you would be a hatchery line of game that is sold under Old English Game description but in all likelihood is actually American Game. Such a stock has been selected for several generations at least for purpose of egg production, whether such selection was intended or not. Process is known as "hatchery selection". Such birds come in many colors and at least some of those lines are in fact "game" but again that attribute would have no advantages for you. To start your search, I suggest Cackle Hatchery as they carry several "Old English Game" lines. They are pretty yet loaded with aggression to cause all sorts of fun.

You can do it free range games with nongames with essentially no discord if only rooster present is the game rooster. Game hens tend to be a little more aggressive but lines I am familiar with mix quite well. You can even for a time free-range non-game stags under a gamecock but problem I have with dominiques is once they get sassy the game attacks and will not let up until dom leaves territory which dom stags seem too stupid to do. Result can then be a dead dom stag if he can't find a good place to hide.

 

[Poultry Friend]

Centrachid: I just got home to read this. I actually just got home from buying my birds! LOL! However, l am pleased with the birds and although I can see what you are saying, I will rely on the Dominiques for eggs and just eat the few eggs we don't want the games to hatch. I have only commented on the game eggs so much because of the amazing taste, but I have a feeling that is due to the fact they were allowed to free-range and the Dominiques were not.

I made sure to ask all the questions you told me.

My neighbor has a long history with American Game, back to the 60's. His current flock of Kelsos is out of a banded Trio from Archie Kurr (?). He also has Archie Kurr Hatches.

He seemed surprised I was actually interested in the breed and good birds. I think he thought I was just wanting chickens, but once I started asking questions he really lit up. You can tell he loves the breed and hates that his health has made it so he cannot keep them anymore. At first he was just going to give me an older rooster with a broken spur, but I asked if I could look at the others.

I tried to ignore color and just look at the body shape and all the points you told me about. The first one was really pretty- a red. The second though...he just seemed...special. He had a smaller head, nice long upright body. Nice long legs. Good fan tail and wings. I went in and caught him and banded him as bought.

My neighbor also had a look at him, saying he wanted to know how good a choice I made, and commented he was a really good bird. (I am so happy with that amazing compliment! I owe you a **HUGE** debt of gratitude for giving me those pointers!) My new cock is 1/2 Kelso and 1/2 Hatch- 100% Archie Kurr. His father is the banded Kelso from Archie Kurr's flock.

I am not sure on his color...he has some white, but it was getting darker (which made it easier not to be color blinded by all the stunning Roos!) I will go back to see him again tomorrow.

The gentleman was so happy that I was an American Game lover he offered to select the best hens out for me. (Which I happily agreed too!) and they will all be Kelso's with one being a Kelso Spangle. In addition, I bought 5 pullets, but he said he will give me the rest.

All in all I bought 1 Dominique Roo and 4 hens, 1 Archie Kurr Kelso/Hatch Cock, 4 Kelso Hens, 5 Kelso pullets (and whatever else he give me)

I am so happy I could pop!

(as to cost- he is a friend of several years, so I got a good deal. I think it helped that he can tell I am serious about them and will not breed them down. He is selling the rest of the flock in "The Gamecock", although I think he plans on keeping the Archie Kurr banded Kelso and his ladies. He said that bird is about 8 years old and is very special. Apparently he has been offered $1,000 for him, but he decided to hold on to him.)

 

[Vcomb]

Centrachid: I just got home to read this. I actually just got home from buying my birds! LOL! However, l am pleased with the birds and although I can see what you are saying, I will rely on the Dominiques for eggs and just eat the few eggs we don't want the games to hatch. I have only commented on the game eggs so much because of the amazing taste, but I have a feeling that is due to the fact they were allowed to free-range and the Dominiques were not.

I made sure to ask all the questions you told me.

My neighbor has a long history with American Game, back to the 60's. His current flock of Kelsos is out of a banded Trio from Archie Kurr (?). He also has Archie Kurr Hatches.

He seemed surprised I was actually interested in the breed and good birds. I think he thought I was just wanting chickens, but once I started asking questions he really lit up. You can tell he loves the breed and hates that his health has made it so he cannot keep them anymore. At first he was just going to give me an older rooster with a broken spur, but I asked if I could look at the others.

I tried to ignore color and just look at the body shape and all the points you told me about. The first one was really pretty- a red. The second though...he just seemed...special. He had a smaller head, nice long upright body. Nice long legs. Good fan tail and wings. I went in and caught him and banded him as bought.

My neighbor also had a look at him, saying he wanted to know how good a choice I made, and commented he was a really good bird. (I am so happy with that amazing compliment! I owe you a **HUGE** debt of gratitude for giving me those pointers!) My new cock is 1/2 Kelso and 1/2 Hatch- 100% Archie Kurr. His father is the banded Kelso from Archie Kurr's flock.

I am not sure on his color...he has some white, but it was getting darker (which made it easier not to be color blinded by all the stunning Roos!) I will go back to see him again tomorrow.

The gentleman was so happy that I was an American Game lover he offered to select the best hens out for me. (Which I happily agreed too!) and they will all be Kelso's with one being a Kelso Spangle. In addition, I bought 5 pullets, but he said he will give me the rest.

All in all I bought 1 Dominique Roo and 4 hens, 1 Archie Kurr Kelso/Hatch Cock, 4 Kelso Hens, 5 Kelso pullets (and whatever else he give me)

I am so happy I could pop!

(as to cost- he is a friend of several years, so I got a good deal. I think it helped that he can tell I am serious about them and will not breed them down. He is selling the rest of the flock in "The Gamecock", although I think he plans on keeping the Archie Kurr banded Kelso and his ladies. He said that bird is about 8 years old and is very special. Apparently he has been offered $1,000 for him, but he decided to hold on to him.)

That'd be Archie Kehr (someone correct me if I got it wrong). You've got games that will likely have peacombs in their genetic make up. Should be some good stock to start your flock with. Good luck and enjoy! I'm not too familiar with the Kelso and Hatch families but I hear the Archie Kehr name mentioned often and what few birds I've seen online of those lines looked solid.

 

[Poultry Friend]

Ah! I was wondering if I was spelling it right! And Thank you! Looking at prices in The Gamecock, it seems I got an amazing deal! I guess it pays off to be friends with your neighbors and bring their dogs home when they wander away!

Also, I was mistaken when I said the Hatches were Archie Kehr. I think he said they were Perry Hatches that he got from Archie Kehr. Would that make then Archie Kehr Perry Hatch?

 

[centrarchid]

Ah! I was wondering if I was spelling it right! And Thank you! Looking at prices in The Gamecock, it seems I got an amazing deal! I guess it pays off to be friends with your neighbors and bring their dogs home when they wander away!

Also, I was mistaken when I said the Hatches were Archie Kehr. I think he said they were Perry Hatches that he got from Archie Kehr. Would that make then Archie Kehr Perry Hatch?

Poultry Friend,

How will you be keeping birds? Free-range? Pens?

You might get a late brood if birds properly fed that will be interesting to watch develope. You will need to invest some effort in keep the two roosters apart. The game will damage himself trying to get at Dominique if he can see latter and latter teases him.