Show off your Delawares! *PIC HEAVY*

[kathyinmo]

My girls should be clean .... after all the baths they take.

(Note: the one on the right is a Light Sussex, not a Delaware)

This young pullet would rather stay out of the dirt.

A couple more of the younger girls ...

 

[jeremy]

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Due to the way their feathering in they both look like cockerels to me! I could be wrong though, pictures with larger shots of their comb and wattles would help.

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Stacy, I think I'm going to have to agree with you on this one. I feel if that if the green color in question was suppose to be prominent in the tail barring the SOP would at least mention it. I pulled some pictures from feathersite so that we could all see some comparisons.

The following Delaware roosters all have very apparent barring in their tail feathers, note that these pictures were taken outdoors and there is no sheen visible even in the sunlight.

These examples, in my opinion, is what one should strive for concerning tail feather color. There's a very distinct black-white-black-white pattern within the barring and there is no hint of any green. Also the white in the barring is very clear and is white, not gray. Like you mentioned it should be.

Conversely another example of a Delaware male (also from feathersite) showing a rooster with tail barring but that also has the green sheen. If you look closely enough you can see very faint barring on some feathers.

Even though the barring may be present the fact is that the pictured rooster is carrying the green sheen in his tail feathers too. I know you mentioned that all good blacks have a green sheen Cynthia but I don't think that in Delawares that should be the case. Yes I'm an amateur breeder, so I could be wrong, but I'm going off of what the SOP definition tells me. I don't necessarily think I would use this rooster or another like him in my breeding program. My biggest concern is that the green color is too closely related to the green/black color in the Colombian genetics, something that all Delaware breeders should want to cull out of their breeding programs. We should all be striving for that clean white-black tail barring. The green sheen to me clearly indicates signs of Colombian genetics diluting the Delaware blood.

Here is an example of an SOP drawing of a Light Brahma rooster, which has the Colombian color pattern. Notice how the artists rendering shows the green sheen in the tail feathers.

Here is the SOP drawing for a Delaware, notice there is no green sheen visible within the tail feathers. Clearly if the green sheen was intended to be visible within the breed you would thing the SOP drawings would indicate the preference.

 

[jeremy]

On a lighter note, I forgot to mention... Stewart has started to mount the pullets that he's penned with! I saw him do it twice this morning while I was watering,

 

[Serrin]

Kathy, those are some of the happiest looking birds I've seen all week! [with the possible exception of my own!

] I love watching them roll around in a really good dust bath. They can so get into it sometimes!

My own little flock got so carried away with a communal dust bath the other day, that I was afraid they were going to hit China eventually with how deeply they dug down to get at the cooler, moister earth below.

It got to the point where the only thing I could see of them, was the tops of their combs!

Never mind that the yard now looks like a series of WWII foxholes all over the place!

They have enjoyed themselves, and that's all that matters to me!

I love the faces of your younger girls by the way, Kathy! I think that's possibly what draws me to the Dellie breed the most. Those oh so deceptively sweet looking faces. [we know better, don't we!?

] The roos are beautiful, but on this breed, it's the totally sweet looking appearance of the hens/pullets that tugs at my heart! I sooooo want some Dellies! I think when my old girls all pass away, I'll replace them with Dellie girls!

 

[tnchickenut]

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I'm sorry, but I would have to disagree again. The Barred Plymouth Rock's plumage calls for "each feather throughout its lenth crossed with sharply defined, regular, parallel bars of alternate light (short of positive white) and dark (short of positive black) color, and ending in a narrow dark tip." It is a very long paragraph so I won't write it all out but it never mentions "lustrous greenish black" once, but it does mention "short of positive black".

On the otherhand, Columbian coloration DOES call for lustrous, greenish black.

Now, that is not to say that you haven't seen Barred anythings with the green sheen... but if perfection is what you want, following the SOP is paramount.

I believe what you are refering to as "any good black" is going back to the description in the SOP of "black" but that is clearly in reference to solid black breeds as it states "... and others with totally black plumage". Like I already wrote out, the barred rock should have "short of positive black" with no mention of lustrous greenish black. Also, the New Hampshire hen says nothing of lustrous greenish black... however the male NH does call for lustrous greenish black in the coverts. But once again... it is pretty clear to me that if the standard calls for it... it will state it and once again, the Delaware's coloration does not state "lustrous greenish black".

It states in the glossery that "lustrous" in the SOP means - "A brilliant, glossy, luminous appearance of the feather due to the light rays" = the "sheen" as we keep calling it.

To me, that is obvious. I don't know that you could breed it out without it popping back up here and there, but still. I believe it is a throwback to a Columbian influence.
Even if you want to make the stand that the lustrous greenish black came from the NH side (refering to how coverts on NH males call for it) ... even then it's only the coverts. Not the main tail. The main tail on a NH should be "black", not "lustrous greenish black. Like I said, to me it's simple and obvious. If it should be there... it would be spelled out in black and white in the SOP. Trust me, they don't mind taking up half a page to completely describe things in great detail.

 

[tnchickenut]

Jeremy - it's important to remember that the site feathersite has pictures that were donated to the webmaster. He does not take the time (and I have conversed with him over emails about this) to make sure they are good or even fair representations of any given breed.

 

[speckledhen]

I have asked Janet Holtman to come in and give her take on the subject if she has time. She has some of the best Delawares in the country and knows her stuff.

 

[Louieandthecrew]

My Delaware mix is officially a roo

Changing his name to Zaxbys

 

[Serrin]

Jeremy, there's something that I'd like to point out about those illustrations that might be overlooked by a great many people. One needs to take into account that, first and foremost, this is an artists impression of the bird in question. Second, each illustration is obviously executed by different artists. This is easy to discern when you compare the two styles. One is very precise and the other is more primitive in its execution.

Also, one has to keep in mind the time period in which each were produced. Even though I don't have a copy of the SOP, I'm willing to bet that the illustration of the LB was made sometime during the latter part of the 19th century. That is a time period in which artists were notorious for taking a bit of poetic license with their illustrations and had a tendency to romanticize their subjects by making certain features more pronounced than they were in reality, and for downplaying other features as the notion struck them. Very few illustrators were interested in making exacting and precise renditions of their subjects quite the way Leopold or Audubon were.

My whole point here is that, when it comes to illustrations, just like paintings, the result is all in the eye of the artist executing the work. And since every person will see and note different things, two artists, side by side, can paint an illustration of the same chicken, and come up with two completely different renditions of the same bird! Of the two illustrations you have been kind enough to post, one artist was clearly struck by the iridescent greens in the tail feathers of the LB, while the other artist [who's subject appears to be indoors I'd like to point out] makes no representation of such in the Delaware. But just because an artist did or didn't include the iridescence in his work, I don't think it's grounds to come to a concrete conclusion one way or the other about the desirability to have that green sheen in the tail.

And even the written word regarding these magnificent birds is not enough to tell us what is and isn't considered desirable in these birds today. Standards do change over time as fashion and popularity dictate. We see this frequently in the pedigree dog world. For example: Breeds that are more than 200 years old look very much different today than what the SOP was for each of them in the beginning. Chickens are no exception to these trends. I think that maybe the only way you're going to be able to satisfactorily answer the question of the green sheen in the tail feathers is to discuss it with persons of recognized authority within the breed community. And if you are so ambitious as to do so, I sure hope you'll share with the rest of us whatever you find out! Whether you're an avid breeder, or just an admirer of the breed, it's nice to know which way to go and what standards to strive for. For your absolute tenacity to find the truth of the tail feather Jeremy, you have my respect!

 

[joletabey]

I would love to hear what Janet has to say- I had gotten the impression that the darker barring roos were good for your hen line- it helped with the tail black. I think the SOP might could be clearer on describing "black" in it's breed descriptions - further qualifying definitions by adding "not having green sheen" or calling it "dull black" or something that distinguishes the type of blacks.

Amy is very correct in saying that standards change- not only in dogs, but horses and cats, too. People are always trying to "improve the breed". There are huge discussions (basically fights) about the apple head Siamese vs, the wedge head- what an Arabian horse should look like, the "new" QH halter horse with it's impossibly little feet, etc. And yes, artists take license and interpret. Plus they may get ONE example of a bird plus written description to go one. Heck, if you described me right, I could be mistaken for a retired beauty queen or something, rather than an older, greying farm girl.

I do think the SOP is our guide, but I think the people actually out in the field breeding have a lot to add to that.