Show off your Delawares! *PIC HEAVY*

[Stevenson]

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I don't think you can say they have yellow legs if getting the yellow is the result of the feed or a supplement only.

It is like the athlete that gets DQ because of the use of steriods.... It is the additive that made the difference in their performance.
I would think we would want birds that can meet the standard independently, without the use of additives.

I think short term and limited solutions are not really the answers we are after. We should be looking for answers that will work for delawares whether they free range all day OR are provided a gourmet diet in a pen.

I do understand what you are saying. I don't care how much feed I give my speckled sussex, they are never going to have yellow legs due to their genetic makeup. The difference here is that Kathy and I are both working with Delawares with the same genetic line from the same breeder. They obviously have the genetics to have the yellow legs (as mine do). That being said, how do we know that the original Delawares that the SOP was written from weren't eating a diet that would bring out the yellow legs? I may be incorrect, but it would seem to me that the standards would be written on what is considered a good representative of the best birds.

 

[kathyinmo]

Exactly, Michael. That's the point. They must have the genetics to have yellow legs expressed. To what degree it is expressed may be from age, feed, sunlight, or whatever. A friend of mine was telling me that her birds' (female wheatens) feathers turn almost white by the end of the summer, then after molt they are back to a Wheaten color. The sun bleaches out feather color, so why not leg color? My 4H lad feeds strictly Flock Raiser and keeps his birds inside, producing nice yellow legs. My free ranging birds' legs pale in comparison, though I know if I take them inside I can increase the intensity of the yellow.

I do not show. But, if I were to show, I would use some of the above mentioned tools and methods to assure nice rich yellow legs for the show birds. That IS what show people do, as seen in the messages I received and posted here. They use tools and methods to enhance the qualities the birds have. I am satisfied, at this point, that my birds do, in fact, have yellow legs. This issue is closed for me. Now, I can go back to obsessing over the body type, that I got side tracked from.

 

[Urbanfarmerkc]

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I know you are done with conversation Kathy but I've been out of loop for awhile so I feel the need to respond. Leg color and overall health including feathers and body type can be mutated by environment especially diet. We have to assume that the breeders and showers of any breed of chicken are feeding a well balanced feed to their flock. I bought an absolutely beautiful bird from a lady a few years ago (still have it actually) and the bird was up to it's belly in mud. This bird's feet are scaly and ugly and we all know why.

Also, if parasites hit a bird, they will cause the feet to change color and have scales. Of course, this isn't genetics it is environment. But if a bird fits a lot of the requirements of the SOP, would we throw the bird out because of environmental issues? I wouldn't of course but others might. For me, I'm looking for a specific characteristic in a bird. Every year, I add to that and then move my entire flock up to another level.

I grew up a pig farmer and we could register the pigs. Because of this and the simple fact they didn't reproduce like chickens do, it was easier to know standard and to get most folks following the same standard when culling the pigs back. This is NOT the case in raising chickens. It is up to the individual breeder to bring a chicken up to standard and there is NO standard (that I have seen) to do this. I do like the ALBC's attempt to help us do this but that is not "standard" yet either.

I have seen Kathy's birds... In fact, I have one of Kathy's Delawares... I am using him next year as my breeding rooster. He has a great body so far and his legs although not bright yellow has nice yellow legs. I think body type will be close and coloring can't be known until he is a bit older. He has the right color tail though. More important, he has the right genetics for the job. I'm still 4 generations away (according to ALBC) from having a flock that anyone who is breeding will want to purchase. I'm making EXCELLENT progress but only because I am looking at the underlying genetics and patiently climbing that ladder year after year.

I wouldn't be worried about Kathy's bird's leg color yet at least not until she sees several generations of the same thing. Then she will need to breed that out of them. But of course, isn't this part of the game we are playing?

My opinion.

Dave

 

[Stevenson]

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In your opinion, at what age can you really start telling something about body type? I understand that with Delawares, you have to wait longer than other breeds to see how they are going to turn out....but when can you start feeling like you have a good bird?

 

[math ace]

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Well, if the process for approving the standard was anything like the process for approving the standards for the Black Copper Marans...

the people proposing the standard are not enough to get the standard approved.

After the committee is finished "proposing the standard", there must be enough entries at a show that are CONSISTENT with the proposed standard in order for acceptance of the proposed standard to be suggested.

The marans breeders did not have enough people showing birds that were consistent with the standard the first time go around.
The marans breeders had to wait a year and try again. . ..

It would seem to me that the breeders would not as a whole be feeding a dietary supplement like this years ago.
Also, this supplement is affecting other areas of the bird that would create additional faults for showing....

No, if yellow legs and "rich yellow" legs were present back then..... they weren't created by marigold extract or anything else that would effect the white feathering.

 

[kathyinmo]

I disagree, Lisa. Respectfully. You can have your opinion, and I can have mine.

Have you read any publications from the early 1900s? I have read many of them. YES, the show people DID feed their show birds diets rich in certain things, for certain reasons. Oh, we can learn so much from those folks and those publications. One article I read was about what to feed to prevent purple barring! Good reading, those articles!

"Back then," was nothing at all like it is today, regarding poultry. It was a way of life! The Marans being accepted is a totally different thing these days. In the early 1900s there were thousands and thousands of interested people, not just a few like todays world. I love reading the show results from those old times. The stories, too. I could sit for hours reading them. Talk about shows! WOW, they had tons of them!

Another thing I keep in mind.... It is the "Standard of PERFECTION." Perfection being the key word, to me.

 

[kathyinmo]

I think I have further evidence that the sun does indeed bleach out the yellow leg coloring. I have a Barred Rock hen that has been broody. She has been inside for over a month. I put her and her new chicks outside today. She is fed the same feed as the other Barred Rocks, by the way. They all have yellow legs, but the intensity is increased when they are inside. Look at the color of the broody's legs, and the color of the other Barred Rocks (who are free ranged)....

Granted, these are not the best pictures, but you get the idea.

Something else I thought you may be interested in. My project birds, the F1s..... Some of them are near point of lay. Guess what I have noticed. This surprised me. The older they get the more yellow their legs get. The younger ones have paler legs. I do have pictures, if you want to see them.

 

[Hillbilly Hen]

Kathy, I would love to see pics of your project birds. This has been very interesting.

 

[Tanichca]

If my hen stays broody for a few more days, I'll be buying her some Delaware eggs. does anyone have a few for sale?

 

[math ace]

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Well, I knew sooner or later we would agree on something !