Sign Petition to stop GMO Alfalfa from entering circulation

[Organics North]

Quote:
Vfem????
It's your thread...
Can Frosty rant...

I would not mind discussing anhydrous myself...

ON

 

[vfem]

It was really just for the link to sign the petition... trying to aim at GMO Alfalfa...

I'm shocked this thread hasn't been closed yet though...

So... RANT ON!

 

[elizabethbinary]

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In school we learned a saying that goes for both dieting and this topic:

"If you want to watch what you eat, you have to make it yourself."

 

[Organics North]

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I think we have been a civil group.... A few heated moments, but all and all quite polite to one another.. I actually do value Katy's viewpoint and learn to be more tolerant because of these debates..

I have opinions against anhydrous ammonia, for two reasons:
1. It is extremely energy demanding to manufacture.
http://www.ipm.iastate.edu/ipm/icm/2001/1-29-2001/natgasfert.html
Sure the farmer saves trips with the manure spreader but the on farm fuel costs are more than offset by the energy input into its manufacture.
2. Bad mojo for soil microorganisms... I would say it would take many years for a field to recover from that stuff to where you would get a decent yield with organic fertilizers.

I simply see it as environmentally bad, and not sustainable.

So Frosty, what do you not like about it?

ON

 

[Frosty]

Perhaps we should start another topic about chemicals, GM crops, and everthing else?

What I don't like about it anhydrous... for starters, it only provides nitrogen for crops to grow. Not the trace elements that have been taken from the soil.

The other major thing that I don't like is as you said, it's killing soil microorganisms. Also killing other soil life such as the earthworms. The worms are actually pretty sensitive. I found that out when all of my earthworms in the bin in my basement died. All of them. I figured out what killed them, DH was glueing PVC pipes in the basement, but he got dizzy from the fumes and came upstairs. The worms were stuck down there with the fumes and it killed them.

Anhydrous is pretty wicked stuff. There was a train hauling it that derailed just outside of Minot ND. One person was killed, and a lot of people left with permanent breathing problems. Then a year or so later a line blew off while filling a pup tank about a quarter mile down the road from me. The guy filling the tank was killed. While I am the first to admit that large amounts released into the air are a lot more concentrated than what is injected into the soil, it is still killing life in the soil. I have heard that we have 'rich soil' here, but after the first rain it looks like concrete.

I strongly feel that we are taking and taking from the earth and not giving back. Anhydrous provides nitrogen that makes plants grow, other chemicals provide basic nutrients too. But what about trace elements? Through composting and manure spreading, at least some of the nutrients are returned to the soil along with organic matter. Chemicals in general, there were some farmers in the area that noticed that their families were always sick. They decided to do something about it and started fertilizing with manure and practicing crop rotation. They have moved away from chemicals and say that their family is healthier.

Part of the problem with manure that makes it less attractive to use is not only is it labor intensive, but it also isn't always readily available in quantities needed.

 

[dlee]

Quote:
I heard that "Rock Dust" replaces many of the minerals that are not in the stuff you get at the feed store. I can't find any reasonably priced rock dust in my area (Lufkin TX). An old rock quarry would be great but can't find any around here. I have 2 mules that supply me with enough manure. Lots a work scooping & spreading by hand but worth it. I'm trying my best to remain with natural suppliments for my gardens & chickens. I just started tilling up my large chicken run also. They fell in love with the loose dirt & started scratching & rolling in it while I was still tilling. I just ordered red worms to spread in the dirt also. I have 2 old bath tubs I will put the some of the worms in so they can reproduce enough before the chickens eat them all. LOL

 

[Lazy J Farms Feed & Hay]

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We will NOT use Anhydrous Ammonia on our farm primarily for Health and Safety reasons. I simply value my lungs too much to use it.

Secondly I don't like the way it kills soil microorganisms. We paractice No-Till where practical as well as cover crops in an effort to improve the health of our soils, using Anhydrous would set us back in that effort.

Jim

 

[Katy]

Quote:
I think we have been a civil group.... A few heated moments, but all and all quite polite to one another.. I actually do value Katy's viewpoint and learn to be more tolerant because of these debates..

I have opinions against anhydrous ammonia, for two reasons:
1. It is extremely energy demanding to manufacture.
http://www.ipm.iastate.edu/ipm/icm/2001/1-29-2001/natgasfert.html
Sure the farmer saves trips with the manure spreader but the on farm fuel costs are more than offset by the energy input into its manufacture.
2. Bad mojo for soil microorganisms... I would say it would take many years for a field to recover from that stuff to where you would get a decent yield with organic fertilizers.

I simply see it as environmentally bad, and not sustainable.

So Frosty, what do you not like about it?

ON

I'm not a fan of anhydrous either...it is dangerous to use.

We do spread the manure from our cow herd onto a few acres, but the majority of farmers don't even have livestock anymore, let alone to have enough to spread over hundreds or in some cases thousands of acres.

We use what we have available to us to make our living......someone invent something better and cheaper and we'll gladly use it.

 

[Organics North]

I do not know what the alternatives would be for folks like Katy with a 1000 acre operation.. That would be quite a bit of manure! I think that east of the Mississippi with the exception of parts of IL and IN, we have smaller farms with usually enough livestock to provide manure, or in Wisconsin where we are mostly dairy operations, that grow crops for the herd and the only thing going to market is the milk. Manure and crops stay on the farm, creating a nice little sustainable operation. Out west growing grain? What are the alternatives if any?

Out west too it is compounded by short or dry seasons where one can not always do a off season cover crop with the annuals.

I am unaware of "alternative" methods being developed for the grain belt.

ON

 

[Katy]

Rotation and leaving land fallow is one alternative, but I don't know a farmer that could do that on a yearly basis and still have any sort of a profit margin. The profit margin shrinks every year as it is. Plus, say it became common practice for every farmer to leave 1/2 or 1/3 of their ground out of production for a year or two.......people complain about how much their groceries cost as it is.....think what would happen if a large chunk of that food disappeared from the market place.