Sitting with a cup of coffee. (coffee lovers)

[ocap]

now we can have a discussion on the difference between punishment and discipline

 

[Bunnylady]

Quote: And some people will tell you that punishment never works. The problem that I have with the "reward desired behavior, ignore undesired behavior" model is that it assumes the animal in question wants to please you (as a puppy generally does). When you have an animal that is trying to dominate you, rewarding what you like and ignoring what you don't can come across as submissive, placating behavior, and it can get you killed! (with larger animals like horses, anyway). Holding a puppy down until it stops struggling is a dominance display; it reinforces your position as the dominant animal in a way that a dog understands.

I prefer to think in terms of pressure - both positive and negative. You create a situation where you put pressure on the animal, and it gets rewarded when it responds "correctly." The squeaker toy is great - the reward (I assume) is that she gets played with (you're right; your son is smart).Dragging her in by the collar - not so much; if she decides she'd rather avoid the rough handling and runs away, it can turn into a game of chase (positive reward for an undesired behavior).

 

[ronott1]

And some people will tell you that punishment never works. The problem that I have with the "reward desired behavior, ignore undesired behavior" model is that it assumes the animal in question wants to please you (as a puppy generally does). When you have an animal that is trying to dominate you, rewarding what you like and ignoring what you don't can come across as submissive, placating behavior, and it can get you killed! (with larger animals like horses, anyway). Holding a puppy down until it stops struggling is a dominance display; it reinforces your position as the dominant animal in a way that a dog understands.

I prefer to think in terms of pressure - both positive and negative. You create a situation where you put pressure on the animal, and it gets rewarded when it responds "correctly." The squeaker toy is great - the reward (I assume) is that she gets played with (you're right; your son is smart).Dragging her in by the collar - not so much; if she decides she'd rather avoid the rough handling and runs away, it can turn into a game of chase (positive reward for an undesired behavior).

different animals respond to different rewards. Some are very motivated by food, like our chickens. Most of their little brain is devoted to food related things so it is big motivator for them. Chickens will not be motivated to pleas us.

Rats are motivated by food and will associate getting sick from food more than they will associate what food they are eating with a hawk attack for example.

Rat poison has to kill rats after three days or so or the rat will associate the food with the sickness--they somehow let the other rats know and they will all stop eating the bait.

More intelligent animals are motivated by trying to please. Those are harder to train in a lot of ways.

 

[vehve]

Quote: And some people will tell you that punishment never works. The problem that I have with the "reward desired behavior, ignore undesired behavior" model is that it assumes the animal in question wants to please you (as a puppy generally does). When you have an animal that is trying to dominate you, rewarding what you like and ignoring what you don't can come across as submissive, placating behavior, and it can get you killed! (with larger animals like horses, anyway). Holding a puppy down until it stops struggling is a dominance display; it reinforces your position as the dominant animal in a way that a dog understands.

I prefer to think in terms of pressure - both positive and negative. You create a situation where you put pressure on the animal, and it gets rewarded when it responds "correctly." The squeaker toy is great - the reward (I assume) is that she gets played with (you're right; your son is smart).Dragging her in by the collar - not so much; if she decides she'd rather avoid the rough handling and runs away, it can turn into a game of chase (positive reward for an undesired behavior).

I've seen amazing things done with using only positive methods, but they don't always work with every animal. Sometimes it's a lot easier to use bot positive and negative methods. But then there are people who go completely overboard. Punishment should never harm the animal, in my opinion it's supposed to be mildly annoying or slightly uncomfortable. Like if our dogs forget that you're not supposed to pull on a leash, I might give them a small slap with the leash, and they immediately remember not to pull.

 

[Bunnylady]

I've seen amazing things done with using only positive methods, but they don't always work with every animal. Sometimes it's a lot easier to use bot positive and negative methods. But then there are people who go completely overboard. Punishment should never harm the animal, in my opinion it's supposed to be mildly annoying or slightly uncomfortable. Like if our dogs forget that you're not supposed to pull on a leash, I might give them a small slap with the leash, and they immediately remember not to pull.

I agree, there is never any excuse for causing actual pain. I've often had kids tell me, "but I don't want to hurt him/her," and I've pointed out that a quick slap of the hand on the shoulder or hip is nothing compared to what horses do to each other every day.

Also, I think you need to take intent into account. There's a big difference between a foal trying to explore you with its mouth, and an 8-year-old pony that is feeling bored and doesn't want to stand still while you pick out its feet. Even here, there is the matter of "pleasing." No human is stronger than a horse; we do what we do with them because they let us. To remind the horse, "I outrank you, and you don't do that to me" isn't harsh, it's self preservation. I believe the vast majority of training should be positive - you ask, the animals gives you the behavior you asked for, and gets rewarded in return. That makes everyone happy. But I also think that you need a means of expressing disapproval for "wrong" behavior, particularly when that behavior is disrespectful.

 

[Highcotton]

I was raised on fried green tomatoes, yum!!!  I never thought of the toothbrush, when I was working on developing my variety of tomato (I call it Northern Lights-a couple more generations and I can declare it stable, probably is now but I want to be super positive) I used a paintbrush.  Because it is to be an open-pollinated, not hybridized variety, I am not interfering with the pollination.  It's no only way I can be certain that it's stable and will not revert once I release it.

I am Impressed. I just try to grow those that someone else developed. There is nothing like a tomato sandwich made from fresh vine ropened tomatoes. As Brother Dave Gardner said, "Lift and eat quickly lest it falls through the bread.

 

[pollitos2013]

Awwwwww, I loved all the photos and the videos y'all posted. Thank you! Chickens got out last night in the dark but we caught them all!

Happy Saturday everyone

 

[Alaskan]

Awwwwww, I loved all the photos and the videos y'all posted. Thank you! Chickens got out last night in the dark but we caught them all!

Happy Saturday everyone

WOW!!! That is why I so often wake up in the middle of the night listening to odd sounds. Eek!

 

[chickisoup]

Spent most of the day at the emergency vets. Very long story short. Had an appointment for next week with my regular vet, couldn't get me in sooner. I had found a lump on the side of her head and she was running a low fever. This morning I looked into her eyes (definitely know yesterday they were fine) and choked a scream, yelled at my DH we are heading for the vet's NOW while he was trying to figure out what just happened I was diving for my going to town pants. One of her eyes was totally clouded over and the other looked "fuzzy". I knew something was very, very wrong.

Several hours and $600 later we had no clear answers what it is but a few of what it isn't. Could be Blastomycosis or an aggressive Lymphoma. Third possibility is acute Leukemia. Vet admits she's stumped, but not for lack of searching for an answer. The Hematology results were bazaar. After the bloodwork and looking at cells under the microscope were inconclusive, Blasto is looking less likely but the biopsy went off to the state vet lab anyway. If nothing else, it will narrow the search.

She was given several different drugs and we were sent home with more while we wait for more results. The old "shotgun" approach until we know what we are fighting. Within hours of coming home both eyes were completely white. My poor little baby girl. I am fighting to be strong for her but my heart is breaking as I hold her.
Please pray. I know, she's just a dog, but no she's not,,,, not to me.

 

[3goodeggs]

She is your family. She is your baby girl.
My best wishes, thoughts, and prayers for you both.
Not knowing is very difficult, hug her and hold her and I hope the shotgun approach works.
I am very sorry.
I love my dogs more than most of my blood relatives, I do understand, and I know how frightening this is.