some think that gun laws are unconstitutional

[PineappleMama]

Quote:
Now now, I'm a Libertarian and I'm in 100% agreement with you on this... there is a difference between LiberAL and LiberTARIAN... just as there is a difference between demon and democracy and repugnant and republic... just because two words share a few letters does NOT mean they are remotely related. I'm not much of a sheep either, particularly when it comes to being tarred (and feathered) with the same brush as someone I've got nothing in common with.

 

[Dunkopf]

Quote:
That's why they don't allow political discussions on this forum. They always turn out badly.

I'm okay with guns. I wish they would regulate them. I also wish the all the pro unregulated gun people would just tell it like it is instead of always bringing up the same old empty arguments about people that have been dead for 200 years and needs that were valid 200 years ago. Just say "I don't like being told what to do" and leave it at that.

 

[Dunkopf]

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Probably very few gang bangers have those cards. I bet you the vast majority of their guns used to belong to someone with a card but no gun to go with it. If gun owners would keep their guns locked up in real gun safes bolted to the floor it would help dry the supply up a little.

In other words being responsible would solve a lot of the problems with guns. This is not directed at any particular person. Question: If you had a handgun that your child would never ever in a million years ever touch because they have been so well trained and they touch it while you are gone and happen to put an extra hole in your other kids forehead. Would you still feel so strongly about being able to leave your gun where your kid has access to it. If someone broke in to your house while you were gone and the gun was used in a homicide would you feel even a little remorse? Just asking.

Outlawing guns is a ridiculous idea. Putting through some responsible regulations is common sense.

Boyd you are right. I don't have 2 hours to watch all of Obamas town halls so you can prove an alleged point.

 

[rebelcowboysnb]

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No facts are being dismissed.

Yep Australia has a lower gun homicide rate. It also has a lower stabbing rate an a lower beating to death rate. So is the gun ban why these are down to? or is something else going on.

I see just as big of a percentage change inside the USA by race an we all have guns so are you sure culture is not why your homicide rate is lower than ours.


2000 per every 100 thousand people
Race Total Non-gun
White-Non-Hispanic 2.76 1.31
Black 22.28 6.14
White-Hispanic 9.59 3.14

If it was the guns then your gun homicide rate would be low but your knife an beating deaths would still be high.
Just like England. There homicides are low over all manner of killings. Its hard to believe that not having a gun is deturing beatings.
Then other countrys have almost no guns but have high killing rates.

 

[Dunkopf]

Quote:
No facts are being dismissed.

Yep Australia has a lower gun homicide rate. It also has a lower stabbing rate an a lower beating to death rate. So is the gun ban why these are down to? or is something else going on.

I see just as big of a percentage change inside the USA by race an we all have guns so are you sure culture is not why your homicide rate is lower than ours.


2000 per every 100 thousand people
Race Total Non-gun
White-Non-Hispanic 2.76 1.31
Black 22.28 6.14
White-Hispanic 9.59 3.14

If it was the guns then your gun homicide rate would be low but your knife an beating deaths would still be high.
Just like England. There homicides are low over all manner of killings. Its hard to believe that not having a gun is deturing beatings.
Then other countrys have almost no guns but have high killing rates.

Poverty and education have a lot to do with it too. Just like the birth rate.

 

[rebelcowboysnb]

Thailand has higher homicide rates than us an they have much stricter gun laws.
http://www.nationmaster.com/red/country/th-thailand/cri-crime&all=1

Same with South Africa.
http://www.nationmaster.com/red/country/sf-south-africa/cri-crime&all=1

An Colombia
http://www.nationmaster.com/red/country/co-colombia/cri-crime&all=1


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[chickenguru]

I will go ahead and apologize for another long post. Look at these stats and you can see that a governments idea of "gun control" does not work very good. I will stick to my method of teaching my kids gun control. Safety first and then being able to hit accurately what they shoot at, and know when to shoot and not to shoot. Our sheriff here wrote an article and had it put in the newspapers locally a few months back when we were having a rash of break ins. Basically he encouraged people who could purchase weapons to do so but with this caution. "Buy a gun that you will be comfortable with and will be able to use if you have to, and get plenty of practice.

Australia
It is a common fantasy that gun bans make society safer. In 2002 -- five years after enacting its gun ban -- the Australian Bureau of Criminology acknowledged there is no correlation between gun control and the use of firearms in violent crime. In fact, the percent of murders committed with a firearm was the highest it had ever been in 2006 (16.3 percent), says the D.C. Examiner.
Even Australia's Bureau of Crime Statistics and Research acknowledges that the gun ban had no significant impact on the amount of gun-involved crime:
In 2006, assault rose 49.2 percent and robbery 6.2 percent.
Sexual assault -- Australia's equivalent term for rape -- increased 29.9 percent.
Overall, Australia's violent crime rate rose 42.2 percent.
Moreover, Australia and the United States -- where no gun-ban exists -- both experienced similar decreases in murder rates:
Between 1995 and 2007, Australia saw a 31.9 percent decrease; without a gun ban, America's rate dropped 31.7 percent.
Overall, Australia's violent crime rate rose 42.2 percent.
At the same time, U.S. violent crime decreased 31.8 percent: rape dropped 19.2 percent; robbery decreased 33.2 percent; aggravated assault dropped 32.2 percent.
Australian women are now raped over three times as often as American women.
While this doesn't prove that more guns would impact crime rates, it does prove that gun control is a flawed policy. Furthermore, this highlights the most important point: gun banners promote failed policy regardless of the consequences to the people who must live with them.

The UK
The UK has the second highest overall crime rate in the EU.
It has a higher homicide rate than most of our western European neighbours, including France, Germany, Italy and Spain.
The UK has the fifth highest robbery rate in the EU.
It has the fourth highest burglary rate and the highest absolute number of burglaries in the EU, with double the number of offences than recorded in Germany and France.
But it is the naming of Britain as the most violent country in the EU that is most shocking. The analysis is based on the number of crimes per 100,000 residents.
In the UK, there are 2,034 offences per 100,000 people, way ahead of second-placed Austria with a rate of 1,677.


The U.S. has a violence rate of 466 crimes per 100,000 residents, Canada 935, Australia 92 and South Africa 1,609.
Shadow Home Secretary Chris Grayling said: 'This is a damning indictment of this government's comprehensive failure over more than a decade to tackle the deep rooted social problems in our society, and the knock on effect on crime and anti-social behaviour.

 

[Q9]

Just a random tidbit here. Crime is at a 35 year low, gun ownership is reaching new heights, and gun regulations are fewer than they've been in ages. Does this prove that guns stop crime? No, to presume so would be a logical fallacy. It DOES, however, prove that gun regulations don't have any meaningful effects in keeping crime down. Again, it does NOT prove that gun regulations INCREASE crime.


It sure as heck shows that they're useless, though.

Oh, and before you question my statistics, I'll go ahead and direct you to the FBI and take it up with them.

 

[Dunkopf]

It could be thousands of things. That's what's fun about statistics. Any person or group can shape them in whatever pattern they want to represent whatever cause they're supporting. I don't understand your logic that the fact that crime has dropped shows that gun regulations are useless. Gun ownership is up. maybe background checks and mandatory training has helped to keep guns out of the hands of criminals. Maybe more people lock up their guns so criminals can't get them. There is no clear answer.

 

[PineappleMama]

I think what he's saying is that with guns in the US our crime rate has dropped.

Without guns in ____ their crime rate has dropped.

Therefor guns being there or not doesn't really have all that much to do with it??

*shrug* That's how I translated it anyways.