Sunflower Chickens

[Ivywoods]

In Osama's case, with that well placed shot to the brain, there is a very good chance that there was no fibrillation. That kind of trauma to the brain often causes immediate "cardiac standstill" due to the resultant pressure and trauma to the brainstem. The electrical (nerve) stimulation that is the pacemaker in the heart just stops. Immediately.

However, if this didn't happen, (and it is possible that it didn't) and his death was a result of exsanguination, his heart would have gradually slowed, gradually going into an ineffective ventricular rhythm and eventually stopped due to lack of blood (oxygen) delivered to the cardiac muscle, much the same as the way someone dies when they have a "heart attack" or myocardial infarction.

I have trouble stretching anemia to fit this situation. Anemia generally refers to the problems with the blood (lack of iron, red cells) and generally doesn't refer to the problems that it causes, such as hypoxia. I guess that is just how I have always viewed it.

 

[mikeksfarmer]

Look Mike I wasn't trying to be mean with what I said about anything , but I do think you went bit far by jumping Renee about the heart attack thing why is it not possible. I mean Are we looking at a bird with Giagantisum? So your saying this birds body (muscles) grows faster then its organs and bones. If that is the case then how can this pooor bird walk or stand with these big bulky legs,and feet, why wouldn't its organs grow at the same rate . I mean what about that hybrid vigor we keep hearing about, if this bird grows that fast why wouldn't its organs start to shut down as well.
Now I am really confused

Daren
Daren you seem to be confused a lot as of late.

I wouldn’t say I was jumping Renee. I would say discussions at any level bring about knowledge. If it’s not worth sharing your personal convictions we should keep our mouths shut. Forums are for discussions and learning as well as social communications. And this one is about chickens who may or may not have heart attacks.

 

[KansasBoy]

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I think you could be onto something with this... Exercise helps create new red blood cells! Making them work for their food or free range could only help not hurt! This would make it easier on the backyard chickeners more so than the feed lots... But we can't change them so much!

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Nope it was "dude" and "he" in reference to the terms that were used

I think you're right though, sure they look at it as just loosing a bird now and then so they can maintain fast turn arounds! On a larger production scale I'm sure every day counts when it comes to food costs and available space!

 

[mikeksfarmer]

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Points well said! I was thinking that the bird grows so fast; and with the rate at which blood can be produced it can’t keep up with the needs of the body and it goes critical. I am thinking that if you slow the growth to let the blood catch up, and if you support blood producing minerals vitamins and proteins the result will be less flip overs. I have at times processed some broilers and other small animals to eat. Upon removal of the head I have watch the blood drain out. By the time I am removing the heart and lungs the heart may still be quivering. You may be correcting me with Anemia and I would gladly accept it. However I was thinking Anemia is not having enough blood.

 

[Ivywoods]

Yes, anemia is "not enough blood," more specifially referring to not enough oxygen carrying red cells.

Without doing any research, but from my own experience I don't think this would be the cause of "flip over." That seems like it would cause a more gradual demise proceeded by lethargy, which from what I understand is not the way flip over presents itself.

Again, I put out a disclaimer. I don't raise meat birds due to the fact that I can't process them, and don't have a readily available source to do so.

It's really stupid. I can get chicken poop all over me (not that I like to, but it happens!) However, wet feathers literally make me vomit.

 

[KansasBoy]

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Wet feathers?!?? Why wet feathers over poo?

 

[Ivywoods]

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Wet feathers?!?? Why wet feathers over poo?

Long story. I think it goes back to when I was a kid and we butchered 50-100 chickens at a time. I know it's a psychological thing, but I've tried to mentally manipulate myself out of it, but so far it hasn't worked, and it's just easier to not butcher a chicken.

I can harvest, field dress and process a deer and other 4 legged animals. I can clean fish. I can't do wet feathers. Seems silly, but I guess it's like a lot of other people who have "irrational phobias."

 

[HEChicken]

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This would have been my thought as well if it weren't for my one and only experience raising a broiler. I got one last Spring along with my layer chicks, planning on a nice chicken dinner. The Cornish X turned out to be a boy. He was raised from day one with 3 layer chicks, eating chick starter and then Flock Raiser (not broiler food). He ate it on the same schedule they did which in the first few weeks meant it was available 24/7, but later it was only available during the day. At around 4 weeks of age, they transitioned from an indoor brooder to my outdoor chick run. Here they had access to grass and bugs, feed during the day, and occasional table scraps.

By six weeks, he was nowhere near big enough to eat, although he was noticeably bigger than the others. At this point I started letting them out of the run for increasing amounts of time to free-range. By 7 weeks they were free-ranging full time. From 7-10 weeks, his day consisted of roaming my backyard trying to keep up with the far more nimble layers, eating mulberries that fell to the ground, racing to be the first to table scraps that were thrown out, climbing the stairs to my back deck to peer in the window at us, and eating free choice from the feeder throughout the day.

I *thought* he was on the right track to live longer than most and be healthier than most due to his lifestyle. I was wrong. At 10 weeks he "flipped". At this point he weighed about 4lb. So the conclusion for me is that something about their constitution makes them inherently vulnerable to "flip" regardless of the way they are raised. If I were raising a batch of meaties, I would feed broiler feed 12 on/12 off, in a tractor, and they would grow to 6-8lb in 6-8 weeks. My guy got an extra two weeks of life and a good less meat on his bones, got the exercise and healthier diet but still his body couldn't keep up.

 

[Katy]

Quote:
Wet feathers?!?? Why wet feathers over poo?

Long story. I think it goes back to when I was a kid and we butchered 50-100 chickens at a time. I know it's a psychological thing, but I've tried to mentally manipulate myself out of it, but so far it hasn't worked, and it's just easier to not butcher a chicken.

I can harvest, field dress and process a deer and other 4 legged animals. I can clean fish. I can't do wet feathers. Seems silly, but I guess it's like a lot of other people who have "irrational phobias."

Ivywoods, I can relate to how you feel.......I had to help butcher lots of chickens when I was growing up too. When I was about 16 I swore I'd never butcher another chicken as long as I lived......I'm over 58 now and still haven't done it. With me tho it's not wet feathers....it's the smell of the wet feathers mixed with the blood that makes me want to retch.

 

[mikeksfarmer]

If I had a plucker it wouldnt be so bad. Some times there are places you can take your birds and process them with their plucker. Renee found one for us near KC last year when we all got together. I know a neighbor of mine used this place or another for processing her birds. However I would rather not pluck or butcher my chickens. I usually give my young roos to starving friends.