Teddy Bear?

Discussion in 'Guinea Fowl' started by GuineaLady93, Sep 25, 2011.

  1. GuineaLady93

    GuineaLady93 Chillin' With My Peeps

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    My Coop
    When someone says that a color is a "Teddy Bear", what does that mean?
     
  2. mrslb333

    mrslb333 Chillin' With My Peeps

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    I believe its a pied pearl grey [​IMG]
     
  3. PeepsCA

    PeepsCA Chillin' With My Peeps

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    It's not a color at all, it refers to the abnormal pattern of the markings on the keet's body and head that have been the reason some breeders coined the name/term "Teddy Bear". It can occur in any of the fully pearled Guinea colors, and they are always Pied to some degree.

    Instead of normal stripes/markings on the body the colors are mottled/blended together as mostly one color, and the head stripes are not the typical wide center stripe with 2 sets of narrow stripes and 2 sets of narrow tan stripes... on TBs how Pied the keet is going to be determines how wide the center dark stripe in the head is when they hatch. The width of the head stripe can vary from all the way across the top of the head with just one set of tan outer stripes to just a solid narrow widow's peak stripe in the center of the head with no tan stripes visible at all.

    Teddy Bear Pied Pearl Greys are most common (because Pearl Grey is the most dominant color in a flock, and the keets are usually a solid brown color brown with a little white here and there making them resemble Teddy Bears I guess?), but I've hatched them in Lavenders, Lite Lavenders, Browns, Cinnamons and even Buff Dundottes as well (and all have been Pied to some degree). TBs are very common in my hatches, I have hatched at least 450 TBs this year if not more, but not all of the fully pearled Pied keets that I've hatched have been TBs... (I have not figured out exactly what causes the abnormal markings yet, but I will eventually, lol). Within 2 weeks when they are feathering out they look just like normal Pied keets do (of their same color), except for the different head markings that stay visible until they mature to the age that they lose the down on their heads.

    I have posted pics of some of assorted colors of TB keets that I've hatched this year in a couple previous posts discussing Teddy Bear keets... you should be able to find them if you search for them, but here are a few of them again.
    Notice the lack of stripes on their bodies and variations of the head stripes/markings:
    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]


    This pic shows some different variations of just Teddy Bear Pied Pearl Greys. I hatched tons of these this year.
    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Sep 26, 2011
  4. AquaEyes

    AquaEyes Chillin' With My Peeps

    Is there a difference in phenotype in the adults, or is the difference restricted to the chick color and pattern?
     
  5. PeepsCA

    PeepsCA Chillin' With My Peeps

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    This phenotype is specifically restricted to the keet's markings only (at least in MY flocks' hatches)... once they lose the down/markings on their heads, I can not tell which bird had this pattern as a keet and which didn't. Unfortunately I do not know enough about Guinea Fowl genetics to understand what causes this specific pattern, yet (sigh). I strongly feel it has something to do with the Pied gene being in the mix tho.

    Here are some pics of just the first batch of keets that I bought in April of 2010 and most of these are in my 2011 breeding flock that produced all the TB keets for me (plus a regular Lavender from my own hatches)... and as you can see most of them are TBs, I have the Pieds separated in the 2nd pic. I ended up with 2 batches; I purchased the first batch of 13 and traded a batch of my Pearl Grey and Royal Purple keets for the 2nd batch from the same breeder a week or so apart - 30 keets total, but my laptop's hard drive crashed and I lost ALL of my pics of the 2nd batch... cuz lame brain here was so consumed with cute keets and incubating/hatching that she didn't back up her files [​IMG] . The 2nd batch of 17 were basically more of the same colors, with a few more Teddy Bear Pearl Greys.
    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]


    Here's a pic of the same batch a little bit older and feathering out:
    [​IMG]


    Here is a pic of most of them almost grown:
    [​IMG]


    And a pic of some of them fully matured:
    [​IMG]

    Can you see any obvious differences? I can't, lol [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Sep 28, 2011
  6. AquaEyes

    AquaEyes Chillin' With My Peeps

    Nope, I can't either. Thanks for the lesson! I guess that since I'm not a fan of white or pied that I'll probably never see "teddy bear" keets (years from now, when I can finally have poultry.....)

    [​IMG]


    ETA -- OOOOOOH, I've been meaning to ask you....do you know if any of the colors are inherited the same way as B/B/S in chickens (and turkeys, and muscovies...)? I have been looking into how the colors work in muscovies and was finding some interesting similarities when B/B/S, Lavender and/or Chocolate are thrown together and the colors that seem to be available in guinea fowl. Are any of the colors sex-linked? Which colors are the result of two genes together? In muscovies, they give names to the Blue-Chocolate, or Blue-Lavender, etc that hide the genetics behind the phenotype, such as coming up with "Cream." I'm wondering if the colors like "Ivory" are really a dilute-blue-chocolate or dilute-blue-buff, or something.

    I think I want all the variations in the undotted colors, except for anything brownish, and no white or pied -- just a flock of black through shades of gray-blue. You think you'll be able to make them for me? I'll give you a call in eight years.

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Sep 27, 2011
  7. PeepsCA

    PeepsCA Chillin' With My Peeps

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    I have ABSOLUTELY no grasp on how the genetics for any other type of poultry work, so I'm definitely not the person to ask if Guinea Fowl genetics work even remotely similar to something else, lol sorry. Truthfully I'm more of a Horsey type Girl... the Guineas were just supposed to be a quick-fix solution (that quickly became a life-sucking/every-minute-of-my-time-consuming hobby/obsession) to specifically deal with the problem of the ticks and snakes here that were a threat TO MY HORSES, lol.

    As far as I know, there are no sexed linked colors pertaining to Guineas (does not mean that there aren't any tho). In the buff/tan color family the Hens are usually darker than the males, (and I have observed this in my own flocks and hatches so I've actually put some worth into that concept). But with so much variation in all of the color shades and color names from breeder to breeder (and bloodline to bloodline), and so little reliable info on Guinea Fowl out there and available... it's anyone's guess (unless you happen to be a genetisist to the 10th power with unlimited time and resources... none of which describe me, lol). And as far as I know, all the lighter colors are definitely dilutes of the darker shades, but how that all works makes my head spin.... and I am too old for that, too much head spinning gives me a hang over [​IMG]

    I don't particularly care for any of the non-pearled Guinea Fowl colors/varieties, and I do not have any in my breeding flocks, so you are SOL there... altho out of the blue (ha) I did end up hatching 2 non-pearled keets this year that so far appear to be Powder Blues (but they are Pied of course, lol). I'm keeping them for now, but we shall see what they do for me and my lack of interest in the non-pearled Guinea Fowl colors/varieties, lol (probably not much, since these 2 lil guys are about as recessive as recessive gets!).

    Oh and 8 years from now... I'll be retired, kickin' it on a beach in O Ľahu sippin' lil umbrella drinks!
    (8 more years of breeding Guineas, good gawd, no way... lol).
     
  8. AquaEyes

    AquaEyes Chillin' With My Peeps

    Quote:Hehe...you tickle me.

    [​IMG]

    OK, next question -- in your experience, is there a color that DOESN'T breed true? When I mentioned the way Black/Blue/Splash (B/B/S) works in chickens, I meant it as an example of a color that doesn't breed true. The gene that gives "Blue" in chickens is an incomplete dominant gene, which dilutes Black to Blue when the bird has one copy of the gene. When the bird has two copies of the gene, there is a greater degree of dilution, and the effect is "Splash" -- a bird that looks somewhat like a dirty-white Dalmation with random flecks of Black through Blue. If you breed Blue X Blue, statistically you get 25% Black, 50% Blue, and 25% Splash. So I'm wondering if there is a gene that works that way in Guineafowl. Do you know of any that consistently produce a range like B/B/S when you pair two of the same together? Or do you know of a case when you take one color and pair it to Pearl and get offspring that are intermediate in color, rather than "one or the other", as would be the case in chickens of Black X Splash = 100% Blue? That would be a possible example of incomplete dominance.

    Oh, another way to help figure out what genes are involved is to take a color and breed it to normal Pearl, then let the offspring breed among themselves. If you start seeing more than just Pearl and whatever color the other grandparent was, then you know that more than one gene is involved in making that color, according to Mendel's law of independent assortment.

    Maybe with your experience and my familiarity with basic genetics, we can tease apart how the colors work.



    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Sep 28, 2011
  9. PeepsCA

    PeepsCA Chillin' With My Peeps

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    Quote:Yah, I was "in a mood yesterday", sorry lol [​IMG]

    OHHH now it's "next question", what is this quiz Peeps week? Well guess what, I don't have any worthwhile answers again, so basically my answer is "Nope, sorry, I don't know" to all of your questions... [​IMG] LOL.

    Unless I buy pure bred keets or adults directly from a breeder that separates breeding flocks by color I won't ever see any color of Guinea breed true (or have the experience from to relay info about lol). Most of MY Guineas have 1 gene of everything floating around in their background (understatement there) which is why it's impossible for me to narrow much down with my flocks. One thing I can say with confidence is that in MY experience with MY flocks... nothing breeds true, not even my Pearl Greys [​IMG]
    I don't separate breeding pairs... mainly because I just have not had the time or funds to build the set up for it, so typically every breeding/laying season I have no clue who laid which eggs, or who fertilized them. Only what flock they came from. Narrowing things down and learning about Guinea Fowl genetics from MY flocks is pretty close to impossible, for me any way [​IMG] I'm ok with it tho, cuz I mainly breed for color variety, which my flocks are successful at accomplishing, yay [​IMG]

    I think the best person to talk to about how the Guinea genetics, colors and dilutions all work... is the guy that owns Shady Hollow Farm, in Maine. He really knows his stuff when it comes to genetics (not just Guineas). The Guinea Farm does too, altho I haven't ever contacted them for any info before.

    Wow, we are so far off from the Teddy Bear OT... oops. Oh well, not very many read my rambling posts anyway, lol
    [​IMG]
     
  10. watchdogps

    watchdogps Chillin' With My Peeps

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    Quote:In this pic, what are the ones at the top left and the bottom right? Kind of a lavender and you can notice a pattern on their heads?
     

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