Teddy Bear?

[BarbaraNH]

Thank you for the video and the picture, Rollyard. That really dark/almost black keet in the video is adorable! It is very dark, darker than any guinea keet I've ever seen and looks so much like the Italian keets in the picture on the agraria.org site. I did read that they are extinct. Interestingly, the irregularly pied variety called Pezzata (having varying amounts of white on chest, belly, wings) also appears to be extinct, although there is mention that they are planning to try to breed it again. Maybe they already have. The site says that the Pezzata are very common in the USA.

I didn't explain myself very well when describing the guineas as adults that the breeder from Texas had. I believe there were only one or two white chest feathers out of the whole group of adult guineas, not at most only one or two white chest feathers on each of the birds in the group. If I find out otherwise, I will be sure to let you know. It would make a huge amount of difference and would match with what you and Peeps are finding. But, I am pretty sure that that was not the case.

Edited to include this statement from the Texas breeder: "Just 2 of the group had any evidence of the pied gene. I don't have a lot of pieds in my flock, so that ratio of 2 out of 10 would be typical. Those 2 had just a couple of chest feathers that were white. No white wing feathers as I recall."

The other breeder's lavender TB that was killed may have grown in a white feather or two when older, that is possible, but we will never know. The breeder did tell me that most all of the TB pattern keets do not end up pied at all. I was told "rarely do I get a tb that is pied."

I might have seen that quoted piece about the Grey Guinea Fowl Dissimilar (sic), but if I did, I did not remember it. I search around the Internet so much that I sometimes forget what I've discovered. LOL But, thank you for posting it. It does seem to put that research way back in the 1940's or so, so very much a possibility that guineas of that type might have been imported to Australia or the U.S. around then. Interesting, nonetheless. I see that you are a googling fool like I am. Looking forward to learning more about your discoveries! Enjoy your time away from the forum.

 

[rollyard]

No problems. I did check with the owner of those keets & the lavender does have white on breast. All are pearl neck patterned.

can't find some of my photos from last season so best I can come up with follows. You will note that some of the TB's are quite dark, while others, one in particular, much lighter. Some cinnamon keets in the mix also.



Had a look @ the Pezzata, had forgotten about that site. I see that it has the collar, & white alters collar same as for pearled feathers. I have noticed with my pearls (all pearl neck patterned) that white does alter pearl neck pattern ventrally, but interestingly doesn't, or hasn't altered the collar on the lavender & silver (all collared birds)? Although not all lav & silver guineas pied, those that are don't have white affecting the collar. There are quite a few of them. The pearls & cinns however do have many with the white going right up to the throat? See photos below.

















Thanks to the Texas breeder for additional info. So all 10 keets had TB pattern in down, but only two went onto express breast white. I wonder what neck pattern these birds had? Perhaps then TB pattern not necessarily linked to white (pied) expression, @ least not in every instance? Went back & reviewed the dissimile description & it says of them as mature birds that "it differs in the feathers at the basis of the neck, which are black with white spots instead of violet without any spots". That is how I interpret it? Mind you, the second description is a little confusing. What is missing though is no mention of dissimile being pied? You would think that this would have been mentioned if they had any white? Maybe an unfortunate oversight combined with limited info available on the Italian dissimile? I have always suspected, based on birds here, that these would have grown out pied?

Possibly need to reassess?

1/ TB pattern to pied linkage not necessarily complete? (although every one of my TB's have been pied).
2/ TB pattern to pearl neck pattern linkage - so far all of my TB's have had pearl neck pattern. Even though some of my lavs & silver are pied, they were all striped as keets (well, the striping for silver difficult to see as so diluted; same assumed) & all have neck collars. This would be worthwhile for others to check on. Has anyone bred TB downed keets that have gone onto develop neck collars? I can't remember what Peeps findings were on this now?
3/ Does any other color/pattern emulate TBs in down phenotype?

 

[PeepsCA]

Oh what a bummer, I figured there wouldn't be any pictures of any non-Pied blended downed keets popping up. Whenever I hatch out something that is odd/different/special... grabbing a camera is an instant reflex for me. (I want to learn as much as I can about anything new/different hat I hatch out, and taking pics usually helps me get answers much quicker).

Just curious why there are there no pics in any archives (elsewhere) documenting this blended down difference (of non-Pied keets) on any of Mason's keets either? From the way you've spoken of him Barbara, he seemed to be a pretty serious and observant breeder.

 

[BarbaraNH]

I think the timing was very bad for Michael Mason's TB hatches, Peeps. A lot was going on in his life around then. He needed to take care of his children, and he closed his hatchery. He might have had some photos of the keets and adults, but he lost his Internet connection and couldn't post them to his message board or send them to anyone in an email without Internet access. Even if he had posted them, they would be gone now. The Mason Hatchery message board was hacked and he lost all of the archives.