Tell Me This Is Not CL

[DellaMyDarling]

Omg, this doesn't look promising.
With one doe and kids in my stall, I cannot separate her either.

 

[cassie]

That's the main reason I'm getting out of goats. I can't take all the health problems. They always seem to be trying to find ways of dying. It's also near impossible around here to find a vet that knows or sees goats, so that's discouraging as well. A good vet is priceless.

Get a clean herd and keep it clean is my advice.

You may enjoy this story. I took a sheep to a vet and the vet told me that sheep were funny. He said that he and another idiot (his words) decided to raise some sheep to raise money for vet school. He swore sometimes the sheep would go out and look around and say, "My, what a beautiful day. I think I'll die" and then do so. He said sometimes they could determine the cause and sometimes they couldn't but he did say their sheep raising venture was a bust.

 

[cassie]

It looks like CL. However, no matter what ANYONE tells you, and that includes your vet, CL really isn't all that big a deal. It can be controlled and eradicated. It does take persistence and commitment, however. When I started breeding goats in the late 60's many herds, including mine were infected with it. You could not go to a show of any size without seeing a goat or two with abscesses. I managed to get rid of CL and the other breeders I know did it too, and we didn't cull CL positive animals either. If you need or want detailed instructions on how to deal with CL, contact me. By the way, the most important thing about controlling the spread of CL is to make sure a ripe abscess doesn't rupture in the barn or corrals where other animals can contact the pus. If you want to know how to lance abscesses so you don't expose other goats I can tell you that, too. I did write up instructions on how to deal with CL and I can send a copy to anyone who wants it. Everything in there has been field tested in multiple herds by multiple breeders. Meaning by doing what it says we got rid of CL and it never came back.

 

[cassie]

@cassie
I'll send a PM when I can.

Contacted seller, and she has ability to quarantine her there. So off she goes for now.
I presume step 1 is abscess drain and send to lab, something I have 0 experience doing.

When she arrived I noticed her udder area had a crusty oozy thing going on. 0 pics online or literature about such a condition. Posted on BYH and only really had one response thinking it could by lymph on overdrive. I figured treat with good minerals and supplement.
Now I'm worried it was nasty CL the whole time, spreading all over every goat surface.
My rejected baby got milk from the same farm.

Only "cures" I saw online were started with an $850 lab analyses to develop a vaccine of sorts.

None of that is necessary. I treated all abscesses the same. In the scheme of things it doesn't matter if an abscess is CL or not. You don't want the infected material contained therein to be contaminating the premises or exposing other animals whether it is CL, staph, or whatever else it may be. I used a CL vaccine made for sheep and it worked pretty well. I vaccinated my herd with it for a couple years or so. I had friends that had an autogenous vaccine made from pus from their own animals and that worked too. The thing about vaccines is that it will prevent infections in animals that are CL negative but it has no affect on animals that are CL positive. Since without testing I didn't know who was CL positive and who was not, everybody got a shot. I have no way of knowing whether it was the vaccine or the other control measures I used that eradicated CL from my herd. I suspect it was both. At any rate I got rid of CL and it NEVER came back. One thing to keep in mind is that even CL positive animals will usually have just a few abscesses in their lifetime. There are exceptions, but that is the general rule.

 

[casportpony]

@DellaMyDarling, contact CAHFS. It looks like it will cost you $78.25 plus shipping. If you decide to go this route, be sure to ask them for their Fed Ex account number as that will save you lots of money.

Source: https://cahfs.vetmed.ucdavis.edu/sites/g/files/dgvnsk2461/files/files/page/CL_fact_sheet_2016.pdf
Fees:
https://cahfs.vetmed.ucdavis.edu/lab-tests-fees

Caseous Lymphadenitis fact sheet:

 

[DellaMyDarling]

I want to put this here for Googling hopefuls.
This is an affordable option, in my opinion.
I did contact the above linked CA lab, and did not hear back yet to answer my questions regarding sending a sample in.

https://www.tennesseemeatgoats.com/articles2/cae,clandjohne's.html
I called the 1800 number listed on this page. It is out of service but redirects you to:
512-964-3927

I spoke to a human!
$45 for the culture, to determine what it is.
The culturette swab will cost around $15 if you request from them, or you can call local vet or DR offices for one. Might cost a few dollars.
Send your sample US priority mail, Exemption Animal Specimen.
There is a culture submission form, you can locate by going to the main page of the website above.

Now what I need to do is get the sample!
I'm hoping I can stick her with a needle and pull material, but that's likely to fail. I will likely need to lance and drain, treat the whole thing as a wound. That's messy, and big risks.
Oh boy. Always something new on a farm.

 

[cassie]

I want to put this here for Googling hopefuls.
This is an affordable option, in my opinion.
I did contact the above linked CA lab, and did not hear back yet to answer my questions regarding sending a sample in.

https://www.tennesseemeatgoats.com/articles2/cae,clandjohne's.html
I called the 1800 number listed on this page. It is out of service but redirects you to:
512-964-3927

I spoke to a human!
$45 for the culture, to determine what it is.
The culturette swab will cost around $15 if you request from them, or you can call local vet or DR offices for one. Might cost a few dollars.
Send your sample US priority mail, Exemption Animal Specimen.
There is a culture submission form, you can locate by going to the main page of the website above.

Now what I need to do is get the sample!
I'm hoping I can stick her with a needle and pull material, but that's likely to fail. I will likely need to lance and drain, treat the whole thing as a wound. That's messy, and big risks.
Oh boy. Always something new on a farm.

What risk? Although you didn't ask, I will tell you how to lance an abscess. Heaven knows I have done a bunch of them. Before you begin it is best to clip the area. This isn't absolutely necessary but it keeps thing s lot cleaner and makes it easier to work. Tie the animal up short in an area where the other goats do not have access and where there is a hose with running water available. Take a sharp instrument, such as a new razor blade and make a bold incision. Catch the pus with paper towels and put them in a paper bag that you will later burn. Express all the pus you can with the towels and put those in the bag also. Now, hose out the interior of the abscess with running water. Hose off any pus that is on the goat also. Make sure you get it all out. Now fill up the empty sac with 7% iodine and slosh it around. You can also use peroxide but I used iodine. Let the iodine drain off and puff in some WonderDust if you have or can get it. It contains alum and it will help dry up and heal the abscess. WonderDust is found in the horse aisle of the feed store. That is it. The next day open the abscess, express any pus (usually there isn't any) and repeat the iodine or peroxide and WonderDust treatment. Repeat this until the abscess is healed. This will be just a very few days. The reason for this is if you allow the abscess to just seal over, it will abscess again. You must make sure it heals from the inside out and not from the outside in. I am assuming the abscess is ripe and ready to be lanced. Ripe abscesses will have a soft spot you can feel and the hair may be thinner there. By the way, there is a CL vaccine for both goats and sheep available from Jeffers, Premier One and caprinesupply.com. I didn't check anywhere else.

 

[cassie]

Awesome information. I honestly hope your correct though in this information given...❤

Put it this way. I raised, bred, and showed dairy goats for over 40 years. For many of those years I ran a commercial dairy and milked over 100 does. I was priviledged to know breeders and dairymen with more goats and more experience than I did.
All of us had experience with CL and all of us got rid of it. In a nutshell, the key to preventing the spread of CL is to prevent other animals from being exposed to pus from a draining abscess. The paper I wrote up tells you how to do this. It is also not based just my own experience either.

 

[cassie]

The nasty part of CL is when abscesses are internal. In my experiences and the reading I have done on it, is it is considered one of the chronic wasting diseases in goats. It isn't always internal, but when it is that's when it causes the most problems. It than can be spread by goats coughing, or drainage out of the nose. The internal one is more common in sheep but it does occur in goats as well.

I personally took it more seriously. I guess it all depends on the strain.

You are right about internal abscesses. I personally never ran into this but I have known people who did. This is where vaccination is helpful. Another thing, if you have a wasting goat it might be a good idea to have it tested so you know what you are dealing with. I have had a few goats with wasting disease, but mine were caused by CAE or Johnes. I know because I was enrolled in clinical studies having to do with these two diseases. A friend of mine had a goat that was wasting away and it had leukemia.

Other than testing a wasting goat to see what is wrong with it, your best course is to cull it. Treatment is usually futile and whatever the goat has, it can spread it to other members of the herd.

 

[oldhenlikesdogs]

That's the main reason I'm getting out of goats. I can't take all the health problems. They always seem to be trying to find ways of dying. It's also near impossible around here to find a vet that knows or sees goats, so that's discouraging as well. A good vet is priceless.

Get a clean herd and keep it clean is my advice.