The "Ask Anything" to Nicalandia Thread

[3KillerBs]

Researching about dark, dark Blues, I came across a theorized allele of blue, bl^d, that is believed to produce these dark Blue birds that look Black. Do you know anything about this allele and could this truly be what causes this, or are there more likely other genes at play that darken plumage coloring and these birds are just normal Bl/bl+ otherwise?

@nicalandia I'm interested in this too, because I have some very dark Blue Australorps but, unlike @pipdzipdnreadytogo, I want to breed them this way on purpose.

 

[nicalandia]

@nicalandia I'm interested in this too, because I have some very dark Blue Australorps but, unlike @pipdzipdnreadytogo, I want to breed them this way on purpose.

Undoubtedly there are multiple allelic mutations on the Blue allele, but likely what @pipdzipdnreadytogo is encountering is modifiers as if she was Bl^d/bl+ and crossed to bl+/bl+, 50% of her offspring would be Bl^d/b+ and be as dark

 

[3KillerBs]

Undoubtedly there are multiple allelic mutations on the Blue allele, but likely what @pipdzipdnreadytogo is encountering is modifiers as if she was Bl^d/bl+ and crossed to bl+/bl+, 50% of her offspring would be Bl^d/b+ and be as dark

I wonder if I have similar modifiers. Not all my birds are extra dark, but quite a few of the hens are. I've been selecting for it -- selling all my paler girls and keeping the dark ones as long as their lacing was good.

 

[pipdzipdnreadytogo]

Undoubtedly there are multiple allelic mutations on the Blue allele, but likely what @pipdzipdnreadytogo is encountering is modifiers as if she was Bl^d/bl+ and crossed to bl+/bl+, 50% of her offspring would be Bl^d/b+ and be as dark

I may not have been clear about this (or understandably it's buried, I was a bit wordy with my initial post), but she is producing some chicks that look super dark Blue like she did and are feathering out to look almost indistinguishable from the Black individuals they hatched alongside, and the rest of her chicks have been Black. I don't offhand know how many of each she's produced, however, as I have unfortunately been rather scattered lately and didn't keep records up to my usual standards on these chicks, so I'm not sure anymore of which were the dark Blue color and which were Black at hatch.

 

[nicalandia]

I may not have been clear about this (or understandably it's buried, I was a bit wordy with my initial post), but she is producing some chicks that look super dark Blue like she did and are feathering out to look almost indistinguishable from the Black individuals they hatched alongside, and the rest of her chicks have been Black.

The she is infact Bl^d indeed.

 

[pipdzipdnreadytogo]

Okay, so breeding that out is as simple as just selecting the Black chicks and not using the dark Blue chicks for breeding, then. Cool.

As a follow up, do you know what Bl^d/Bl would look like? Or Bl^d/Bl^d?

 

[nicalandia]

Okay, so breeding that out is as simple as just selecting the Black chicks and not using the dark Blue chicks for breeding, then. Cool.

As a follow up, do you know what Bl^d/Bl would look like? Or Bl^d/Bl^d?

Bl^d/Bl and Bl^d/Bl^d should look Splash

 

[Ms Biddy]

This is the thread to ask anything related to genetics to me. I have Asperger's syndrome. I have poor social skills and can't understand sarcasm so science/numbers/genetics have come very easy to understand.


Ask away.

Hi @nicalandia thank you for helping with genetics questions. This question is about recessive white.

Base pattern is e+. In some birds, silver and/or mottling may be present. Db may be present. The recessive white chicks come out in two down types. One type is pale yellow, sometimes with a faint grayish chipmunk stripe. The other type is diffused reddish.

Both types feather out white but the pale yellow chicks feather out more cleanly with an occasional black speck on a feather here or there.

When the reddish chicks first feather out, almost all the time, the cockerels have a smoky gray color on their chest, and sometimes a little black bowtie. This goes away when they get their adult feathers and it’s hard to tell them apart from the other white roosters.

Some of the male offspring do have some yellowing/cream in the hackle, saddle and shoulder particularly when they get a lot of sun, but no true red.

The pullets that are reddish as chicks almost always have some pale salmon stippling on their throat and chest, both when they get their first set of feathers and even more when they get their adult feathers.

People sometimes talk about getting recessive white chicks that are gray because the Black or Birchen base is showing through the white. These chicks are warm colored, not gray.

What are your thoughts on the two different chick down colors? I puzzled over it for a long time and now suspect the reddish chicks are recessive white on a gold e+ base with some salmon leaking through on the mature females. On the males, autosomal red feathers out as very pale yellow or cream. I think the more consistently pale chicks are e+ with one or two copies of silver. Is there any indication of the number of copies? Would there be any sex linkage to the down colors? I think not but am asking to confirm.

 

[nicalandia]

Hi @nicalandia thank you for helping with genetics questions. This question is about recessive white.

Base pattern is e+. In some birds, silver and/or mottling may be present. Db may be present. The recessive white chicks come out in two down types. One type is pale yellow, sometimes with a faint grayish chipmunk stripe. The other type is diffused reddish.

Both types feather out white but the pale yellow chicks feather out more cleanly with an occasional black speck on a feather here or there.

When the reddish chicks first feather out, almost all the time, the cockerels have a smoky gray color on their chest, and sometimes a little black bowtie. This goes away when they get their adult feathers and it’s hard to tell them apart from the other white roosters.

Some of the male offspring do have some yellowing/cream in the hackle, saddle and shoulder particularly when they get a lot of sun, but no true red.

The pullets that are reddish as chicks almost always have some pale salmon stippling on their throat and chest, both when they get their first set of feathers and even more when they get their adult feathers.

People sometimes talk about getting recessive white chicks that are gray because the Black or Birchen base is showing through the white. These chicks are warm colored, not gray.

What are your thoughts on the two different chick down colors? I puzzled over it for a long time and now suspect the reddish chicks are recessive white on a gold e+ base with some salmon leaking through on the mature females. On the males, autosomal red feathers out as very pale yellow or cream. I think the more consistently pale chicks are e+ with one or two copies of silver. Is there any indication of the number of copies? Would there be any sex linkage to the down colors? I think not but am asking to confirm.

View attachment 3529593

I would say its difference in E allele, that could be tested by outcrossing to wildtype

It could also be some modifiers, as you can see Recessive white is not as simple as some people think

 

[pipdzipdnreadytogo]

Bl^d/Bl and Bl^d/Bl^d should look Splash

Okay, so then my Blues that actually look Blue shouldn't be hiding the gene at least. Thank you! Going forward I'll have to make sure to mark my chicks properly so that I can select for the true Blacks and move away from the dark Blues.