The Great Egg Shipping Experiment!

[MeanV2]

I still have a year of warranty so when it breaks after that, I will likely not use it any more.

This one is clicking a bit so I expect I will have to get it replaced again.

I had the whole setup last year including auto turner. I had well over $100 worth of eggs in it. 7 Days into the hatch a 50 cent plastic piece broke and I came home to eggs scattered every where. I did not give a crap about warranty. I sent it all back for a full refund and bought a Dickey. I will never look back! I don't mind paying big bucks for something but I do expect it to be built to last. IMHO the Brinsea is way over priced and cheaply built.

On another note the dealer I bought it from took care of me the company did not. Another Strike against them!

Dan

 

[ozexpat]

Contrary to the above regarding number 3, folks are seeing air cells reattach over the resting period on the Easter hatch a long thread. The sad truth is that you will not have good hatch rates with eggs treated roughly and not packed well. If you would, please change number three to let the eggs rest for 2 to 5 days based on the air cell condition. For eggs too dark to see the air cell(Do not get mad but it is worth the investment to get a ova view high intensity candler if hatching dark eggs) base the days on the condition of the box. I would rest all shipped eggs for 2 days.

Not turning the eggs does not make the chicks stick it causes deformities like missing eyes and etc. and a lower hatch rate. That does not happen unless you do not turn the eggs from days 8 to 16. Eggs do not need to be turned before or after. If they are getting real serious about turning, the bear in mind that many on that thread make their own incubators and do not have accurate thermometers. The studies and text books have all listed temperature during incubation as being the number one cause of hatch problems.

1 Temps too low
2. Temps too high
3. Humidity too high
4 Humidity too low
5. ventilation

not turning enough is way down somewhere on the list. Take care of the first three and you will have much better hatch rates.



Sticking is most often caused by incubating too low for the first 18 days and too high of humidity. Sticking is a symptom of the yolk not absorbing completely.

The cooling is simply that--the eggs are cooled for two hours a day from day 7 to 2 days before hatch. My Octagon 40 has cool down built into the controls now. This has information and links to research and articles about cooling. http://www.brinsea.com/cooling.html

The diary thread might make a big deal about a lot of things but most of them are only going to make hatch rates a bit better better.

I have had a lot of success following the recommendations in this thread.

you will find different opinions on many areas of hatching as it is both an art and a science. Its one of the great things about byc and thought sharing.

Ron has great personal experience and has been awarded a badge of honor for his education services here,

Ron and I agree on most things but differ on time to start turning. He is right about the small things being made a big deal of in sally's thread. There are several of us who spend hpurs researching scholarly articles with statsitically significant data on ways to tweak the hatch to get just one more egg to hatch.

This is the background for my opinion

I have received around 2000 shipped chicken eggs and have never seen an egg with truly detached aircell hatch. I have seen an increase in dead in shell chicks through not turning eggs after a 12 hour rest at temp. The increase in dead in shell chicks increases proportionately with time not turned. To sacrifice the good of the other eggs is not worth it

Turning of the eggs will facilitate position of developing embryos and ensure that nutrients are evenly distributed for embryonic development. When the yolk is the largest is when turning is most important.

Retardation effects on the development of the chorioallantois, absorption of albumen and growth of the embryo occur with delayed turning.
Delayed turning eggs hatched later than eggs which were turned throughout incubation.


and the list ron talks about up there --- http://msucares.com/poultry/reproductions/trouble.html - look in the Pipped eggs, but died without hatching section

also


from http://www.hubbardbreeders.com/managementguides/Incubation guide (english).pdf

Turning eggs plays a positive role in preventing either the yolk becoming stuck to the shell membrane (Sauveur B., 1988), or the allantoid does not become stuck to the embryo. It also allows for the development of the area vasculosa and of the chorioallantoic membrane (Cutchin H.R. et al, 2009) and facilitates the inclusion of the albumen into the allantochorion (Sauveur B., 1988).

Turning eliminates the chance that a part of the albumen stays outside the allantochorion, that it does not intervene between this and the shell membranes and does not reduce the gas exchange (Decuypere E. et al, 2001).

Eggs that are not turned often endanger embryos via insufficient oxygen pressure in the arteries and high levels of hematocrit (Decuypere E. et al, 2001).

Turning equally facilitates the timely complete closing of the chorioallantoic membrane at the small end of the egg, the accumulation of proteins in the amniotic fluid and a better utilisation of the albumen (Tona K. et al, 2005).

Turning prevents embryonic malpositions at the end of incubation (Tona K. et al, 2003).
Deeming D. (1990), reviewed by Decuypere E. et al (2001), considered that the most important period for turning is between the 3rd and 7th day of incubation and that beyond the 13th day the effects of turning are negligible.

My personal research of 2000+ shipped and 400 local eggs shows a drop in hatchability by delaying turning more than 48 hours

 

[ronott1]

you will find different opinions on many areas of hatching as it is both an art and a science. Its one of the great things about byc and thought sharing.

Ron has great personal experience and has been awarded a badge of honor for his education services here,

Ron and I agree on most things but differ on time to start turning. He is right about the small things being made a big deal of in sally's thread. There are several of us who spend hpurs researching scholarly articles with statsitically significant data on ways to tweak the hatch to get just one more egg to hatch.

This is the background for my opinion

I have received around 2000 shipped chicken eggs and have never seen an egg with truly detached aircell hatch. I have seen an increase in dead in shell chicks through not turning eggs after a 12 hour rest at temp. The increase in dead in shell chicks increases proportionately with time not turned. To sacrifice the good of the other eggs is not worth it

Turning of the eggs will facilitate position of developing embryos and ensure that nutrients are evenly distributed for embryonic development. When the yolk is the largest is when turning is most important.

Retardation effects on the development of the chorioallantois, absorption of albumen and growth of the embryo occur with delayed turning.
Delayed turning eggs hatched later than eggs which were turned throughout incubation.


and the list ron talks about up there --- http://msucares.com/poultry/reproductions/trouble.html - look in the Pipped eggs, but died without hatching section

also

Thanks Oz!

This is a much better post. I am bothered by posts that tell people that they are going to kill their chicks.

I am going to go over all of the studies posted but one thing that sticks out from my Masters Program is the validity of comparing shipped eggs with non shipped eggs in the study. They are very different with incubation.

Non shipped eggs are incubated completely differently from ones that have been banged around by shipping.

Still, turning our not turning is way down the list of causes for late term death. The one thing we cannot control with shipped eggs is flock health. The is above turning as a cause.

For those reading this, take care of the first three causes. Not turning for 2 to 5 days(did you catch that Ozexpat--never said to leave all eggs in for 5 days. I do not know why my name is attached to that)

1. Temperature
2. humidity
3. ventilation

When you are able to control that, you can work on the fine tuning, things that will cause 1 out of 50 to not hatch, like turning.

As for the Badge, one of the reasons I have that is for all of the people that I have helped over the years go from 0 hatch rates to as high as 100 percent, on shipped eggs, following my advice.

 

[MeanV2]

Ron,
On shipped eggs how long do you let them settle before putting in the incubator and then how long do you wait to start turning them once they are in there? Thanks for your input!

Dan

 

[dstinett]

Keep the updates coming. Has anyone bought polish or Silkie eggs from breeders listed on this site??

 

[bamadude]

Oz what are ur plans once the adoption is finalized. Do u think the farm will be ok?

 

[ozexpat]

Thanks Oz!

This is a much better post. I am bothered by posts that tell people that they are going to kill their chicks.

I am going to go over all of the studies posted but one thing that sticks out from my Masters Program is the validity of comparing shipped eggs with non shipped eggs in the study. They are very different with incubation.

Non shipped eggs are incubated completely differently from ones that have been banged around by shipping.

Still, turning our not turning is way down the list of causes for late term death. The one thing we cannot control with shipped eggs is flock health. The is above turning as a cause.

For those reading this, take care of the first three causes. Not turning for 2 to 5 days(did you catch that Ozexpat--never said to leave all eggs in for 5 days. I do not know why my name is attached to that)

1. Temperature
2. humidity
3. ventilation

When you are able to control that, you can work on the fine tuning, things that will cause 1 out of 50 to not hatch, like turning.

As for the Badge, one of the reasons I have that is for all of the people that I have helped over the years go from 0 hatch rates to as high as 100 percent, on shipped eggs, following my advice.

Thats great you have your masters, What do you have a masters in?

My research background is pharmacutical and medical devices - humans - not chickens.

I have been responsible for both the administration of the studies as well as the hands on research. I have also been invited onto sit on an Investigational Research Board

My research in shipped eggs though only been going on for 16 months has probably put me up into the top order of recipients in shipped eggs and there are certainly not many that have noted and weighed more than 1000 eggs through their hatch for the sake of research.

For my research paper on shipped eggs that I am writing for scientific publication I have read thousands of sentences on the topic. Sally Sunshine (whom you suggested to do her own research and homework to on the HAL thread

) is the only person on BYC that has written advice on the topic of shipped eggs tthat is not just anecdotal. We frequently share new articles we find and her opinions and advice has evolved as she has found more compelling information.

I agree that your top three. Temp, humidity and ventilation are clearly important but question you being so adamant that turning is not relevent and even trivialized in your comments. All the research quoted states the importance of it. Many of the source articles are just research on its relevance. I have many mant more if you want them

Albeit not as often, people who dont turn their eggs kill chicks just like people who run their bators with the temp too high kill chicks. I killed hundreds of chicks through working out my humidity issues. The wording in the quote reposted here without context may have seemed harsh but in the original context it was apt. its hard to get around being resposible for the plight of the egg. once I take on the responsibility of hatching I am resposible for the factors within my control

I congratulate you on you teaching badge - its a great honor bestowed on you and feel you deserve it. I am sure that it must also come with responsibility as people come to you looking for the right answers

 

[bamadude]

Oz what are ur plans once the adoption is finalized. Do u think the farm will be ok?

i meant to ask this on ur gtfooh thread.

 

[ozexpat]

Oz what are ur plans once the adoption is finalized. Do u think the farm will be ok?

for the sake of staying on topic - jump to my thread for those questions - I will quote you and answer there

 

[wicket 07]

ronott1 sorry I think this can from my first post listing what I had learn on here. (. Not turning for 2 to 5 about days ) . I am following ronott1 advice my eggs should be here tomorrow, the main thing I am worry about is the humidity today it's 90 % outside.