The IMPORTED ENGLISH Orpington Thread

[jeremy]

The biggest single contributing problem to new buyers buying bad birds is a lack of education about what they are buying. How many people on this thread own a Standard of Perfection ? How many own a copy of the British Standard? How many of you bought birds BEFORE you read either one ? Sometimes you can be lucky in finding a true breeder who will help educate you. Sometimes you run into a fellow novice who hasn't a clue either, and the blind start leading the blind. There are hundreds of people who actually show birds, and have never read their breeds' standards.

I wonder what would happen if ABA and APA sent copies of their standards to just every TSC in the country. If I win the lottery, I would cheerfully fund that.

 

[Goose and Fig]

Brushycreek did the same thing- saying the Americans helped improve productivity, which make perfect sense.

I did an outcross several generations ago with one of my projects, and have taken a lot of slack for it. But overall- I got improvements and color that I never would have gotten sticking with the status quo.

 

[thedragonlady]

Thank you. I like them too, and I make sure anybody who wants some of them knows for sure that they are American with English added in to correct some fertility issues that were cropping up in this line. I quit with the Lavenders after trying three different people's stock and ending up with blah birds after raising them from chicks. I actually went with the lavender Ameraucanas for that reason, so I totally know what you mean. Super hard to find new lines to elevate what I've got, so I added in some black

...

I fully intend to keep a 100% English line, as well as my 50-75% English x SOP Buff line. I raise show birds. To do so, you must conform to the SOP from APA, not the British standard. The British birds have done a great job in eradicating the Rock blood that was infused into US Buffs during the war years, and after. My imports have done a remarkable job on combs, color, and depth of keel, when crossed on SOP birds. The hybrids are also larger than either the British, or SOP birds, and lay earlier and longer than either.

All Orps are in the English class. That is where they came from. It only made sense to me to go back to the source. I also enjoy keeping both types up to snuff, and comparing them while they are ranging.

 

[RedReiner]

Brushycreek did the same thing- saying the Americans helped improve productivity, which make perfect sense.

I did an outcross several generations ago with one of my projects, and have taken a lot of slack for it. But overall- I got improvements and color that I never would have gotten sticking with the status quo.

just a question, did you admit you did the outcross to improve or did you just toss it in there and not say anything and still called it a purebred? not attempting be insulting here, truly I am not, but I have dealt with some that use other breeds then pass off the offspring as purebred, and english to boot, and I think that stinks, if one is honest and says, hey I outcrossed once to improve this or that, got the desired results and now generations later I feel they are purebred. I can accept that as its honest and in the beginning every breed was a combination of breeds until it bred true.

 

[Christabelle]

just a question, did you admit you did the outcross to improve or did you just toss it in there and not say anything and still called it a purebred? not attempting be insulting here, truly I am not, but I have dealt with some that use other breeds then pass off the offspring as purebred, and english to boot, and I think that stinks, if one is honest and says, hey I outcrossed once to improve this or that, got the desired results and now generations later I feel they are purebred. I can accept that as its honest and in the beginning every breed was a combination of breeds until it bred true.

From everything I have read there is no "purebreed" chicken. Orps were created by crossing different chickens together, so I don't see a problem with outcrossing as long as you accurately represent any stock you have for sale. I think if it fits the breed description and breeds true than it is once again "pure". That is the way I understand it. Maybe I'm wrong though. I am sure outcrossing takes a lot of time and dedication to do it right and probably ruins a line more often than fixes it.

I am sure that the imported english orps we all love have quite a bit of Cochin in them. Those partridge fellers got some fuzzy legs

 

[delisha]

Such cute chicks!! Thank you so much for sharing!

I love the lace on so many of them..

 

[RedReiner]

just a question, did you admit you did the outcross to improve or did you just toss it in there and not say anything and still called it a purebred? not attempting be insulting here, truly I am not, but I have dealt with some that use other breeds then pass off the offspring as purebred, and english to boot, and I think that stinks, if one is honest and says, hey I outcrossed once to improve this or that, got the desired results and now generations later I feel they are purebred. I can accept that as its honest and in the beginning every breed was a combination of breeds until it bred true.

From everything I have read there is no "purebreed" chicken. Orps were created by crossing different chickens together, so I don't see a problem with outcrossing as long as you accurately represent any stock you have for sale. I think if it fits the breed description and breeds true than it is once again "pure". That is the way I understand it. Maybe I'm wrong though. I am sure outcrossing takes a lot of time and dedication to do it right and probably ruins a line more often than fixes it.

I am sure that the imported english orps we all love have quite a bit of Cochin in them. Those partridge fellers got some fuzzy legs

to a point, but if you go that route, any breed of animal is just a mutt then, at the point they breed true for all future generations then they are a breed. be it chickens cats dogs horses cows etc., just because it fits the breed description does not make it a purebred if it is half jersey giant and have orpington, its a cross breed. period I have no problem with outcrossing to improve , its done in all animals, but it takes generations of breeding back to purebred before its considered a purebred again. Most chicken people dont think that way but I do. what bothers me is when its crossbred and then represented as a purebred just because it looked like one. I see lots of black dogs in the pound that look like labs, but they arent....

 

[banjoejoe4783]

hi all

its been a wile since I last posted

I injoy all the beautiful pics

MARC - I love the new silver laced can't wait to see them in person

NELLIE- that pic of your lav barred roo wow that is one of the prettiest birds I have ever seen

I would love some of those

REB- great looking birds always

i love my Orpingtons

here are my blue barred






and some of my blue

 

[banjoejoe4783]

my fav by far are the motteled WOW i just love them

 

[TheNuttyChick]

to a point, but if you go that route, any breed of animal is just a mutt then, at the point they breed true for all future generations then they are a breed. be it chickens cats dogs horses cows etc., just because it fits the breed description does not make it a purebred if it is half jersey giant and have orpington, its a cross breed. period I have no problem with outcrossing to improve , its done in all animals, but it takes generations of breeding back to purebred before its considered a purebred again. Most chicken people dont think that way but I do. what bothers me is when its crossbred and then represented as a purebred just because it looked like one. I see lots of black dogs in the pound that look like labs, but they arent....

Wasn't this discussed not too long ago? Aren't all Orpingtons English? Isn't it whether you breed them to the American standard or the English standard that is the difference.

Adding a different breed is wrong, but staying within a certain standard, whichever is chosen by a person is not.

Please correct me if I'm wrong.