The IMPORTED ENGLISH Orpington Thread

[fowlman01]

I am sure I will be corrected on some of what I have to say about the idea of accepting new Orp varieties to the APA. From what I was told, one would have to have raised that variety for 5 years I believe. THEN you all have to show those varieties at an APA sanctioned show. 2 points of issue, one is the fact most here do not show. Secondly, there are now so many new varieties (Chocs, Jubes, Lemon Cuckoos, Partridge, Mottleds, and can't forget about the Lavs which is struggling to keep the interest up) that folks like, to get any one of them popular enough to get 50 birds by how ever many breeders needed to show at a sanctioned APA show to get them accepted is very unlikely. Walt can tell you about how hard the Marans folks have had with getting accpted.
Plus, to repeat what many high level APA breeders have said, our 4 standard colors all need help. Not so for Buffs, but EXHIBITION Whites are virtually extinct in the US. Only a handful of dedicated breeders are raising the Blacks, Blues and Whites. For those who like UK's, it is nice to see a few who are going out and raising Buffs, Whites and BBS's. Those varieties have plenty to gain both in numbers and in these breeder's pockets.

Yes, the 5 years, by 5 people (not at the same address and same last name) and they have to reproduce 50% true to the variety. The biggest proplem I can see is that this is the British Orpington, not the American Orp thread and the birds look different here...or should I say ....most do. They would have to have the hock showing at the qualifying meet... They also have to pass the conformation part of the showroom evaluation, not just the color.. That is where the Marans have had a problem. It is not easy for a reason. If it was easy we would have 1000's of breeds in the SOP.

Walt

 

[madamwlf]

I am very excited to be getting some beautiful bantam Orps from Jordan Farms next week! I can not wait to see the little darlings!

 

[aveca]

Yes, the 5 years, by 5 people (not at the same address and same last name) and they have to reproduce 50% true to the variety. The biggest proplem I can see is that this is the British Orpington, not the American Orp thread and the birds look different here...or should I say ....most do. They would have to have the hock showing at the qualifying meet... They also have to pass the conformation part of the showroom evaluation, not just the color.. That is where the Marans have had a problem. It is not easy for a reason. If it was easy we would have 1000's of breeds in the SOP.

Walt

it takes a lot of interested people right? there are only a handful of people really having the time or will to do any of this..at a show it might look like a lot but on the whole not a lot of people that interested ..out of those people working on this are interested in the english blue for example because look at the lacing and build on some american reduced to pretty poor at best...how could you solve that problem without possibly working in english blue? maybe you could use other breeds but seems like a natural match to me..and yes you would have your work cut out for you for sure..many years ago in one of those old poultry books, they couldnt give the whites away..one mans careful campain promoted them that brought them front and center, only later after he passed,..... they couldnt give them away again, they fell into such a state of disrepair nearly extinct.... it to me and you know far more than i do seems so natural to add a shot of english white...we dont live in a time when people are afforded the time, to have ten trillion breeds running around trying to make one, like my cousin, his job sends him all over us..he wants to get into it but it isnt realistic right nowto work on such things..wouldnt it just be simpler to work english in with a careful eye? some people have been very succesful at that..this is just my meger opinion, but as conformation goes..i think the english are far superior.

 

[lildinkem]

Yes, the 5 years, by 5 people (not at the same address and same last name) and they have to reproduce 50% true to the variety. The biggest proplem I can see is that this is the British Orpington, not the American Orp thread and the birds look different here...or should I say ....most do. They would have to have the hock showing at the qualifying meet... They also have to pass the conformation part of the showroom evaluation, not just the color.. That is where the Marans have had a problem. It is not easy for a reason. If it was easy we would have 1000's of breeds in the SOP.

Walt

What is interesting, is alot of the UK Orp breeders go to the Germans for new blood. And I remember a few pics Dan Honour sent me last winter from a show in Germany. And many of those Orps looked more closely to our APA breed of Orp then the UK breed. Those were some very nice birds. Nice tails, strongly built. and viewable hocks. I think I posted those pics on our other Orp thread. Here are 2 pics of that show

 

[aveca]

those we were told are australorp.they look somewhat like us black orpington. we posted his web page a little while ago.maybe im wrong but wasnt it schwartz or vetter bildergaleirie? its been a while. he had it on facebook too..but like i said, its been a while.

 

[lildinkem]

Dan knows I am an Orpington guy. And he sent these pics to me via email. The pics said BLACKS IN GERMANY & COLUMBIAN IN GERMANY. Last I checked there are no Columbian Australorps.

 

[fowlman01]

it takes a lot of interested people right? there are only a handful of people really having the time or will to do any of this..at a show it might look like a lot but on the whole not a lot of people that interested ..out of those people working on this are interested in the english blue for example because look at the lacing and build on some american reduced to pretty poor at best...how could you solve that problem without possibly working in english blue? maybe you could use other breeds but seems like a natural match to me..and yes you would have your work cut out for you for sure..many years ago in one of those old poultry books, they couldnt give the whites away..one mans careful campain promoted them that brought them front and center, only later after he passed,..... they couldnt give them away again, they fell into such a state of disrepair nearly extinct.... it to me and you know far more than i do seems so natural to add a shot of english white...we dont live in a time when people are afforded the time, to have ten trillion breeds running around trying to make one, like my cousin, his job sends him all over us..he wants to get into it but it isnt realistic right nowto work on such things..wouldnt it just be simpler to work english in with a careful eye? some people have been very succesful at that..this is just my meger opinion, but as conformation goes..i think the english are far superior.

The APA doesn't care how you get there, but the Orps have to look and fit the APA SOP description if you want a color recognized by the APA.

Walt.

 

[aveca]

oh i wont be doing lots of colors, the health and well being and not overcrowding to achive a goal have been figured in just by work schedule and current pasture and barn size...i am just curious..and wanted to hear what you had to say about it because we have to admit in some form of truth here..the american orps need work , dropped wings, white ear lobes lots of details and english like everyone else need some work.. its really a shame that shows back in the 40 s and 50 s would have tons of entries, now your having a great day if you see 10 or 15.... the black orp has so many assets but they are not top egg layers, and they are not a pretty color kind of a horrible grey a lot of them when dressed , so they wernt ever going to take off as a table bird or eggs, but they do improve so many other breeds, probably why a few were floating around..plus they are sweet tempered , great for old ladies and kids..im just having a hard time seeing w what is so bad ? i keep looking and looking at the english..im just not seeing what is so bad? there is not even a picture of a black in your sop only description.what am i to compare to ?.the english on the whole are more type than some us has that look like europes australorp..im afraid if there were ever a world show or chicken olympics, we would be in big trouble maybe..especially with a world judging panel..

thats probably my dressage background talking , but i see some of the same thing here..we wound up importing those animals because we couldnt compete..it would be the same case here, their cages would be filled, jubeilees, mottleds, blacks whites plus more..our cages would be painfully empty and devoid of type and color....maybe that goes back to there are only a handful of people who want to do this..

 

[thedragonlady]

oh i wont be doing lots of colors, the health and well being and not overcrowding to achive a goal have been figured in just by work schedule and current pasture and barn size...i am just curious..and wanted to hear what you had to say about it because we have to admit in some form of truth here..the american orps need work , dropped wings, white ear lobes lots of details and english like everyone else need some work.. its really a shame that shows back in the 40 s and 50 s would have tons of entries, now your having a great day if you see 10 or 15.... the black orp has so many assets but they are not top egg layers, and they are not a pretty color kind of a horrible grey a lot of them when dressed , so they wernt ever going to take off as a table bird or eggs, but they do improve so many other breeds, probably why a few were floating around..plus they are sweet tempered , great for old ladies and kids..im just having a hard time seeing w what is so bad ? i keep looking and looking at the english..im just not seeing what is so bad? there is not even a picture of a black in your sop only description.what am i to compare to ?.the english on the whole are more type than some us has that look like europes australorp..im afraid if there were ever a world show or chicken olympics, we would be in big trouble maybe..especially with a world judging panel..

thats probably my dressage background talking , but i see some of the same thing here..we wound up importing those animals because we couldnt compete..it would be the same case here, their cages would be filled, jubeilees, mottleds, blacks whites plus more..our cages would be painfully empty and devoid of type and color....maybe that goes back to there are only a handful of people who want to do this..

Well said Lynne. I told one of my mentors, Gerry Stahlkupe, years ago, that the ABA would out distance them because of the attitude of the APA to new breeds, or varieties. Just imagine what could be produced if all countries could agree on a unified standard , much as the FEI has done for dogs and horses! We are a GLOBAL society now.Just wishing. I won't see it, but it WILL happen.

 

[fowlman01]

Well said Lynne. I told one of my mentors, Gerry Stahlkupe, years ago, that the ABA would out distance them because of the attitude of the APA to new breeds, or varieties. Just imagine what could be produced if all countries could agree on a unified standard , much as the FEI has done for dogs and horses! We are a GLOBAL society now.Just wishing. I won't see it, but it WILL happen.

I guess an ABA life member would say that the ABA has outrun the APA, but that is just not true. When the rest of the southern ABA members pass the ABA will change.
The ABA put in every breed known to man under Gary and now they have had to put lots of them on the inactive list. They don't even list them in their SOP. The attitude towards the admission of breeds/varieties is not different with the current two committee's. The rules for admission are actually more difficult in the ABA. I don't think it is unreasonable to request that the new color meet the conformation criteria as well. Is that unreasonable? Has anyone read what it takes to be admitted into the APA? Not a post, but actually read the rules? It doesn't sound like it in these posts.

Walt