The Legbar Thread!

[nicalandia]

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yeah minimal grey barring there... Also keep in mind the Standard of Perfection also calls for Cream and Grey Creast... https://www.backyardchickens.com/t/713115/cream-legbar-working-group-standard-of-perfection

 

[ChicKat]

About the type- I am personally aiming for more of a leghorn base type. They were meant to lay lots of eggs so they should have a longer back. I also prefer the leghorn tail just because it is more pleasing to look at

I agree that a quality Leghorn is an absolutely beautiful bird. The leghorns pictured a few posts back by Nicalandia have very long backs and very full tails.

What I would like to reconcile with is this photo that HaHaUThinkSo gifted us with of the Legbar from the Brit SOP - and it seems to be a stockier, less linear bird than the Leghorn....' This photo is the closest we have to a Punnett style CL from back-in-the-day. Okay it is a Legbar, not a Cream Legbar which is confusing-- but the Type should remain the same throughout the variations of the breed.

http://s22.postimg.org/a50mu4qe9/online_standard.gif

Yes, if there were color photos of Punnett's flock it would help us out. .....

Somewhere, I also had heard that the CL was a dual purpose bird - (dual purpose back in those days didn't match the meat-type birds raised in these days)... Several people are processing and planning to process the excess males for eating.

And some breeds are raised for showing only, some for egg production only and some for eggs and meat -- and I had thought that the CL veered a bit toward Dual - and thus may be heftier than the Leghorn. I have also heard that Leghorns have changed a lot in the last century, and even in CSU - there was a photo quiz where only the shapes of the breeds were shown and Walt said that the breeds have changed since that quiz was developed in 1919 or when it was.

I guess too, that if we expect a lot of eggs, we would lean toward a Leghorn type - (form following function)-- The biggest problem we may have in all our current birds, and in UK birds too is the short back and the high tails -- and perhaps those go together...

ETA question for FMP does the B&W picture in the link meet closely enough with the Leghorn type that you are aiming for?

 

[flyingmonkeypoop]

The rooster looks about what I'm aiming for but I want a better tail and a more refined neck. My legbar ladies are close to what I want other than the tails which should be better next year since I culled hard. I'm not after a full on leghorn body but closer to leghorn than barred rock. The single comb non-barred legbar I posted before is about what I like but with some slight improvements

 

[TheTropix]

Re: http://s22.postimg.org/a50mu4qe9/online_standard.gif

ChicKat, that article says what I'd thought would be a possibility. "The Legbar comes in 3 varieties"
Since the people who are drawing up the Standard lean toward the 'less' colored birds were working on it first, they get to claim the 'Cream' variety of Legbar. The moderately colored birds would have to have their own variety name for distinction. example: Buff Orps, White Orps, Black Orps are all APA recognized... the body type is basic to all the varieties, but the color/pattern nomenclature is the distinction. Couldn't the same be done for the Cream Legbar as well?

 

[KPenley]

Re: http://s22.postimg.org/a50mu4qe9/online_standard.gif

ChicKat, that article says what I'd thought would be a possibility. "The Legbar comes in 3 varieties"
Since the people who are drawing up the Standard lean toward the 'less' colored birds were working on it first, they get to claim the 'Cream' variety of Legbar. The moderately colored birds would have to have their own variety name for distinction. example: Buff Orps, White Orps, Black Orps are all APA recognized... the body type is basic to all the varieties, but the color/pattern nomenclature is the distinction. Couldn't the same be done for the Cream Legbar as well?

This is absolutely possibility in time. Here is the conundrum....

1.We imported only Cream Legbars, and they already have a standard so per APA guidelines we are only allowed to translate that standard into APA language, not change it. It is not a preference on my part to lean towards less colored birds, it is me following the rules.

2. The Poultry Club of Great Brittain standardized the Gold Legbar first (possibly 1933, but I need to do more research on this), then added the Silver and Cream. We have been advised by our APA guide (APA Judge, past President of APA, and many other esteemed positions) to start with one color only. We have Cream, so we start with Cream.

Does that clarify the situation at all?

 

[nicalandia]

as Promised... Here, take a deep Breath and Read
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I would NOT breed these Melanizers out of your birds. this is what is giving madamwlf Such a Correct colored Rooster and believe me if you want to follow the Standard of perfection thats how you want your rooster too look like........... But some of you will say, oh he look all grey... well he should if you respect the Estandard of Perfection... let see it calls for: cream grey(shade of cream will very, but not the grey barring) addle hackles cream, barred with dark grey, Back and shoulders cream with dark grey barring Crest cream and grey now as you can see most of these birds body has Grey color and if the cream shade is on the silverish side, guess what? its going to look like a self grey bird....... the Birds that look Cream Crele instead lack this melanizer, thats why they dont look evenly grey, their shoulders lack evenly grey barring, their back and saddle also lack grey barring... What misterious gene could be? Could it be Pg? I think the Pattern Gene could be the Culprit here it affects how the male's Duckwing pattern look, it turns a clean duckwing pattern(lacking melanizers) to a Penciled look.. here take a look a a Silver Penciled Rock

and while the Rock lacks e+ and is based on eb then here is a Silver Penciled Leghorn(good type) http://www.kippenencyclopedie.nl/php/index.php?title=Bestand:Leghorn_Zilverpatrijs_Haan.jpg so yeah dont get rid of the melanizers of you have them....

 

[TheTropix]

yes I wasn't suggesting that a 'clique' was writing the Standard. Honest. I meant that it seems that the Standard will lean hard toward the less colored birds according to the current accepted Standard in the UK. So all the hub-bub is, and has been, about what was said earlier.. different people interpret 'Cream' differently, is that correct? Would/could that suggest that the people that have, and prefer, the moderately colored, crested, blue egg laying "cream" Legbars can look forward to that moderately colored variety being a reasonably expected next step in the Cream Legbar/Crested legbar effort in America with the APA?

 

[1muttsfan]

I believe it is not possible to get a breed admitted to the Standard in more than one color variety - after they are established, each color variety has to be added one at a time, with all the same hoops to jump through separately for each one. So breeds that are found in multiple colors, such as Orps, had to have each accepted separately. Keep in mind too that some colors available in some breeds have not yet been accepted into the Standard, and may not be for 5 years or more. That does not mean they should not be kept or worked on, just that it will probably be a while before they can be accepted.

 

[1muttsfan]

I find the conversation about the barring color and presence/absence fascinating - thank you Nicelandia

 

[nicalandia]

Quote:
yeah it took me some time to figure out why some of the grey looking birds looked the way they did and why some of the birds posted here while being very diluted(lemon/Straw colored saddle, hackles) looked different... reading thru the standard of perfection told me they were melanized duckwing making them look all grey if they were almost silver in color... just take a look at thir shoulders. they are grey barred, also back, and even creast..