The Plymouth Rock Breeders thread

[maryhysong]

My mother talked of keeping chickens on the third floor of their house before my time. Had a fire and burned to the ground. I really do need to research that. Might be a news article somewhere.

Anyhow, there are the heritage leghorns being worked on. Don Schrider of the ALBC raises some really nice Browns. I think he's still in NC. If I were to get into them Browns would be my choice.

The ALBC has a list of breeder for many of the old breeds.

I'm sure Fred remembers the days when you bought chickens by purpose/use. Broiler, Stewing and Roasting was on the label.

As a kid I remember the "real" Farmers market here in Syracuse. You'd find live animals for sale. You could take them home to do them or nearby was the slaughter house. You'd by the animal, take it over and get it done up.

Now there are no live animals and the slaughter house is gone. Mostly home made goods and coolers of meat for sale. Retail produce or farm grown. Most folks can't tell the difference.

What I find funny is folks will buy eggs from an old couple, not realizing they're paying more than they would in the store for the exact same eggs. From the exact same egg farm. I volunteer so I know they deliver to the school.

I do have some old farm papers and did share at one time what I felt where interesting stories, but folks bashed it so I didn't do that anymore.

somewhere there is an article/book about historical labeling and what it meant, like about how old the chicken was, how much it should weigh dressed for each type, but I think it went broiler, fryer, roaster, stew. I lost a lot of book marks last year so don't know if I can find it again; maybe someone here knows it?

 

[desertmarcy]

somewhere there is an article/book about historical labeling and what it meant, like about how old the chicken was, how much it should weigh dressed for each type, but I think it went broiler, fryer, roaster, stew. I lost a lot of book marks last year so don't know if I can find it again; maybe someone here knows it?

http://www.albc-usa.org/documents/cookingwheritagechicken.pdf

 

[ckenglin]

Hello,

I wanted to introduce myself. I'm Caleb Englin from South Dakota. I am fairly new to poultry but have been learning everyday from reading forums like this or in my everyday experiences.

I started a few years ago with barred rocks from a Guy Roy strain. The a couple years ago I got some chicks from Jeremy Woepple and have been improving them. I struggle with what to cull for and what to "live with" I can't stand ugly headed poultry or bad tails so that has been what I have been working on. It's difficult with the barreds due to their slow feathering.

I added partridge rocks that Don Ryan (white Wyandotte breeder) had been working on. He said one hen came from Joel Gillman and I'm not sure of the rest.

Last year I added some white rocks from Jeremy again and a Gillman hen that I picked up along the way.

Below are a couple white pullets and a partridge pullet that I raised this year. I am new to this so any suggestions or critiques would be helpful?

Anyway, here they are.

This is a solid woepple female

This is a woepple x Gillman female. I like her the best, she the biggest, widest skilled female I have. I would like to see her wider coming out of her tail and her comb isn't perfect.

Here is a partridge pullet. I like her length of back and tail. She's decent headed, couple be darker in color and wider tailed, she's not holding her tail up but she usually isn't bad at that. Apparently didn't want to show off.

This is a 3/4 woepple 1/4 Roy barred pullet. Her tail is still coming in but I like her.

Like I said this is how I see the birds and I am still learning. Any comments would be great.

Thanks for looking and look forward to keeping up in plymouth rocks

Caleb

 

[emenheiser]

The perceived "need" for slow feathering in Barred Rocks is one of the reasons I no longer have them. Slow feathering has known production disadvantages linked to it, and I just couldn't justify that. Depending on age, the barred pullet lacks size to be competitive. If you are not chasing show winnings and interested in breeding the productive bird in the SOP, then why tolerate slow feathering?

The top White Rock is by far the better bird of the two. The second has a bad forward tilt and lacks heart girth.

I disagree with your assessment of back length on the Partridge. To me she lacks back; her tail starts almost at the base of her neck. I see other aspects of Wyandotte body shape with her as well.

Honestly, I think you should pick one variety and focus on it. None of the three varieties shown here have reached the fine tuning stage, and until they do, the others are compromising the likelihood that they will.

 

[ckenglin]

Thanks for your comments. Being that I am just starting I don't expect them to be in the fine tuning stage and expect to put a lot of time and effort into making them to standard. Isn't that what breeding any type of livestock is all about.

I do appreciate your analysis however. I do see now that the partridge pullet has no back and her tail starts very close to her neck and that is more Wyandotte looking. However based on her contemporary group she is one of the more longer looking birds. She has one of the widest skulls as well as being one of the biggest. Is she worth messing with. Absolutely I think. She has a lot of good points that I can work with.

The top white pullet I agree with you based on the pictures, I do think she has to much angle in her tail. I could be wrong as I have not measured her. And I see that the other one has more tilt to her. I will need to redo my analysis of her.

The barred pullet is one of the smaller looking ones, but she is younger. I look forward to seeing her develop and her fate is not set in stone if she will be a breeder bird or not.

I didn't start breeding poultry to be told I can't do something. I do expect to hear negative comments, without them how can I better my birds. Do I think they are perfect...absolutely not, compared to the parent stock I feel they are better. And I take that as an achievement even if it is myself celebrating. What I'm looking for is advise to better them. Not to be told to throw out 2 varieties that I have already put time and effort into. I see good in all those birds. I was hoping others would note good things as well. Otherwise it tells me they are not worth messing with and I should give up. And I certainly think they are worth fixing. What types of things do I do to fix the issues that are in the present in the lines. If the breeders that have been doing it for a long time don't share information to people just starting out like myself, who will be there to keep it going. I've been on here for two years reading information to gather as much as I can before selecting breeders. And it pays off I look forward to learning from others experiences.

 

[Fred's Hens]

This section on BYC has a sticky. In it, there is a warning. To paraphrase, if posters put up birds for comment, it is essential to have thick skin and do not take it personally, as comments are directed at birds, not at people.

It is common knowledge that to push a difficult group of birds forward, 100 chicks per year are needed. The reason common wisdom suggests that most people ought to focus on one breed is the this need to hatch out great numbers. With four breeds, the chick count of 400 is above and beyond what many folks can facilitate.

Looking at the birds you posted, I'd say Joe's critique is pretty straight forward and accurate. The first White pullet being the better bird shown by quite some bit. The Barred Rock does show promise.

The Partridge is very Wyandotte in type and if she is typical of the strain you have, I'd brace myself for many hard years of work.

 

[ckenglin]

I wasn't taking it personally and I'm sorry if it came across that I was. I could have been told to cut their head off they aren't worth messing with but I still would have kept then and bred from them because I like them. I'm just looking for some pointers as to if there are certain things that others have done to correct issues in their own stock. Do I expect you to give me your deepest secrets to your success absolutely not. Those are yours and you have worked a lifetime to get them. And I realize that my post has been up a day, and one person has replied. I do appreciate the remarks as I did not see those things in my line and I'm glad he pointed then out.

I hatched out about 200 birds this year with the three breeds. I used 2 partridge females 3 whites and 4 barreds. That's just what I had selected for breeders. I was told to find the best I could, hatch out as many..cull hard and repeat the process. I had planned on breeding the pullets back to the father and a son back to the mother. I have gotten rid of the one white hen as she did not produce as well as her sister.

Are there other breeders out there that are facing similar issues? Since I am very new to poultry and I so far very much enjoy raising them, I would like to keep bettering the lines that I do have, I do not know many breeders out there. I have only came across names and have not found much information about them nor seen many pictures. I Have not been able to get out to any shows to meet anyone yet but look forward to in the future.

What about putting a Rhode Island Red on the partridge? Will that destroy any color development in the line? I absolutely love rocks and hope to someday be able to win a few shows.

 

[Fred's Hens]

OK, if you've read through this thread, you would re-trace over two years of conversations on breeding Rocks. Tedious read, I grant you, but there's a lot of good stuff sprinkled through the many, many pages.

On the Whites. The XW line is a good one. It'll work for you. Just keep on selecting and hatching. You've got what you need there, as evidenced by the pullet. Jeremy has won many times with these birds, so keep at it.

The Barred Rocks are also of quality. I'd have to see more examples of your females and of course, see your breeding males to make specific recommendations. These things are very hard to do on the forum such as this. One must see live birds and more importantly, handle live birds. Photos only provide points of conversation, that's all.

The lines you have in Barred are good. Guy Roy's line is plenty good to get started working. The Barred are tough, I know. Getting males with tails is challenging, but hang in there.

I know nothing about breeding the Partridge. But there is a constant axiom that is important. Always start with the very, very best stock you can possibly obtain. Unlike your other varieties, I would think this line of Partridge is questionable. I would not want to start with birds of this quality. That's me. I would suggest what I always suggest. 1.) Buy the Standard and study it religiously 2.) Got to top notch shows and see what the varieties look like, live and in person. Talk to folks. 3). Get a real mentor, someone with experience in your variety and someone who can teach you.

This forum is fun, helpful to promote the breed and a place of encouragement, but it is no substitute for personal mentoring.


Buy the Standard, Go to lots of shows and see the real deal and talk to real pros and submit to a quality mentor or even two. That's the way forward. It is a life long journey of learning. No one knows it all and no one learns it all in a short period of time. Best regards as you start your journey.

 

[gjensen]

I wasn't taking it personally and I'm sorry if it came across that I was. I could have been told to cut their head off they aren't worth messing with but I still would have kept then and bred from them because I like them. I'm just looking for some pointers as to if there are certain things that others have done to correct issues in their own stock. Do I expect you to give me your deepest secrets to your success absolutely not. Those are yours and you have worked a lifetime to get them. And I realize that my post has been up a day, and one person has replied. I do appreciate the remarks as I did not see those things in my line and I'm glad he pointed then out.

I hatched out about 200 birds this year with the three breeds. I used 2 partridge females 3 whites and 4 barreds. That's just what I had selected for breeders. I was told to find the best I could, hatch out as many..cull hard and repeat the process. I had planned on breeding the pullets back to the father and a son back to the mother. I have gotten rid of the one white hen as she did not produce as well as her sister.

Are there other breeders out there that are facing similar issues? Since I am very new to poultry and I so far very much enjoy raising them, I would like to keep bettering the lines that I do have, I do not know many breeders out there. I have only came across names and have not found much information about them nor seen many pictures. I Have not been able to get out to any shows to meet anyone yet but look forward to in the future.

What about putting a Rhode Island Red on the partridge? Will that destroy any color development in the line? I absolutely love rocks and hope to someday be able to win a few shows.

If you enjoy the birds enough, stick it out, and enjoy sorting through problems, you will get it.

A harsh appraisal is tough to swallow, but that is really how you want to get it. You have definite points to consider moving forward, and it will help you to decide how to move forward. It is so much better than receiving an empty bag.

We start with what we start with, and our start is not the end. At least I hope not. The ending has to be better than the beginning.

I decided to start with a certain ground up effort. Just because. I want to see what I can do, and the project intrigues me. I promise that my project birds are nothing to brag on yet, if they ever will be.

Looking at your pictures, I would say to spend some time considering the topline, underline, and front end of this breed. I realize that you have, but those were my first observations.

 

[LindaB220]

Hello,

I wanted to introduce myself. I'm Caleb Englin from South Dakota. I am fairly new to poultry but have been learning everyday from reading forums like this or in my everyday experiences.

I started a few years ago with barred rocks from a Guy Roy strain. The a couple years ago I got some chicks from Jeremy Woepple and have been improving them. I struggle with what to cull for and what to "live with" I can't stand ugly headed poultry or bad tails so that has been what I have been working on. It's difficult with the barreds due to their slow feathering.

I added partridge rocks that Don Ryan (white Wyandotte breeder) had been working on. He said one hen came from Joel Gillman and I'm not sure of the rest.

Last year I added some white rocks from Jeremy again and a Gillman hen that I picked up along the way.

Below are a couple white pullets and a partridge pullet that I raised this year. I am new to this so any suggestions or critiques would be helpful?

Anyway, here they are.

This is a solid woepple female


This is a woepple x Gillman female. I like her the best, she the biggest, widest skilled female I have. I would like to see her wider coming out of her tail and her comb isn't perfect.


Here is a partridge pullet. I like her length of back and tail. She's decent headed, couple be darker in color and wider tailed, she's not holding her tail up but she usually isn't bad at that. Apparently didn't want to show off.


This is a 3/4 woepple 1/4 Roy barred pullet. Her tail is still coming in but I like her.

Like I said this is how I see the birds and I am still learning. Any comments would be great.

Thanks for looking and look forward to keeping up in plymouth rocks

Caleb

Hi Caleb, you are way ahead of me. I was able to buy some local birds that were gotten from Ken Weaver. I have one Blosl pullet, 3 XW pullets and a XW cockerel. In fact, all four of my girls look a lot like your 2nd pic of the whites. The birds are 6 mo old and their tail was lower but in the past two weeks or so they seem to be standing taller and the tail is higher. One is not up to par and I will not breed her. But it's a start. By the way,