The Plymouth Rock Breeders thread

[Beekissed]

A set back for sure, but a worthwhile one if I can correct for it now. To my mind, that's what "breeding" is... dealing with unwanted recessive genes. Dominate genes are relatively easy to cull for. Granted, this is a pretty big problem being a DQ, but I think it's not impossible at this stage given my small flock size. (Assuming the new cockerel tests normal, of course.) It's actually good to have something to focus on. Really simplified my breeding goals for the year. 2015 is now going to be the Year of the Wing.

I like that....Year of the Wing! I think mine is the Year of the Tail. I'm hoping to get a better tail and back line, while improving the laying. Not sure what I'm doing but I'm going to be doing it as hard as I can!

 

[Chicken Ducks]

6 month old rooster. Hows he looking?

 

[Yard full o' rocks]

6 month old rooster. Hows he looking?

Chicken Ducks

He looks quite healthy and well cared for. As a 6 month old cockerel, he still has a lot of growing yet to do. Great color to the legs, nice head and comb. A couple of things I see that you might watch for; wing carriage is too low, he appears shallow breasted (which can fill out over time), appears to have a rainy day back. A front view and a shot from directly over him would help in order to see overall size and width. Quite a nice swoop to the tail at this early age as well, a great thing in Rocks

 

[Fentress]

That tail does look good. I'm at 40 weeks and the tails on my K's are still flat, not sure if there will be any lift as they get older. Although my experience is limited, I have not seen a good top line with swooping tail on any BR male. There were some pics of WR K's a few weeks ago and they had it.

 

[Yard full o' rocks]

That tail does look good. I'm at 40 weeks and the tails on my K's are still flat, not sure if there will be any lift as they get older. Although my experience is limited, I have not seen a good top line with swooping tail on any BR male. There were some pics of  WR K's a few weeks ago and they had it.

My Ks didnt lift their tails until they were nearly 11 months old!! Hang tight. Rock males take forever to finish

 

[Fred's Hens]

Sorry this isn't a good photo,(ignore the goofy camera angle) but this K is only 9 months old and his tail is just now lifting and filling out. But, quite honestly, this is a "pure" GSBR/XW male the boys down in KY chose to hold over for 2015. These birds often lack a decent tail anyhow and in very few cases do the backlines measure up against Whites. This is why the Barred rarely compete successfully with the White Rocks for BB, let alone can they win against the Hamps or Reds for Best American. Sigh.

 

[Fred's Hens]

Those of us with Columbians, or SPPR or Barred, or Buffs, etc know full well we've NOT got our birds at the level of the White Rocks. I mean it. If Matt1616, or Shafe, or Weaver post photos here of their White Rock Males, we all just sort grimace knowing there's no way we're ready to take those birds on given the current state of the other varieties.

So? We roll up our sleeves and get to work. 2015 is dawning cold and bright and hope springs eternal.

 

[Happy Chooks]

I've heard you can sometimes tell split wing in chicks. Does anyone know how reliable that is? How early or what to look for?

And since this is a breeding thread: I've culled other birds from this mating for wing issues earlier this year. Does that mean at least one of the parents was a carrier of the gene?

Not in Rocks, but I work with Barnevelders, and have had split wing in them. I was told by several breeders to cull hard for wings, and I have. I'm seeing improvement in my flock now with their wings. I still have some popping up with split wing, and they are culled to the freezer. Interestingly, I have yet to have it pop up in a female. So far, in my flock, it's only showing in males - and can only be one wing. (the other wing is fine) My understanding is also that it is a recessive gene that shows when both parents contribute the gene.

As for telling early, I have found that I can't tell until they go through their juvenile molt. Some look like they have split wing in their gawky teenager stage, then they molt out, and are fine. It sure sends you into a panic though. I even had one male with a questionable wing, it didn't look split, but looked "off". I held onto him because his body carriage and tail were so nice, and now at 9 months old, it looks fine.

My breeding males do not show any split wing. I'd show a picture, but this is a rock thread, so I'll resist.

 

[uphilljill]

Interesting, thank you. I've also found it much rarer in females, but did have 2 from that same mating expressing it.

Most of my males from that batch had crazy wings which I culled for only keeping the best 3-4. Their wings now look normal when held against the body. I only notice a gap when the wings are spread out. I'm going to hang onto them a bit longer just to be 100% sure they're not still growing in wing feathers. This photo mid-flap shows one of the males in question:

 

[Fred's Hens]

Not in Rocks, but I work with Barnevelders, and have had split wing in them. I was told by several breeders to cull hard for wings, and I have. I'm seeing improvement in my flock now with their wings. I still have some popping up with split wing, and they are culled to the freezer. Interestingly, I have yet to have it pop up in a female. So far, in my flock, it's only showing in males - and can only be one wing. (the other wing is fine) My understanding is also that it is a recessive gene that shows when both parents contribute the gene.

As for telling early, I have found that I can't tell until they go through their juvenile molt. Some look like they have split wing in their gawky teenager stage, then they molt out, and are fine. It sure sends you into a panic though. I even had one male with a questionable wing, it didn't look split, but looked "off". I held onto him because his body carriage and tail were so nice, and now at 9 months old, it looks fine.

My breeding males do not show any split wing. I'd show a picture, but this is a rock thread, so I'll resist.

Kelly, you make some excellent points. We have to make absolutely sure we don't put a male with a split wing in the breeding pen. If we make such a mistake, we'll be culling out most the subsequent mess and starting again. But we gotta do what we gotta do.

I do think, however, that the longer we breed a specific line of birds the more familiar we are with predictability. We begin to "see" how things come and go. We also learn what won't likely improve with age.

Here's a young male that I culled two summers ago. When you see a wing this bad on a young K, time isn't going to change things, in my experience. How much of this might be an inside the egg birth defect? I don't know. It matters not, he was gone.




By comparison, here's a young K that I really liked a lot this past spring. Honestly, I should have kept him, but Jim Fegan, a poultry judge and a guy I'd like to think is a good friend, stopped by and had to have him. Wings on him are just about perfect to my eyes and Jim liked them too. Should have kept that K.



Here's a K I pulled out of the breeding farm down in KY and brought home for a local BYC partner to breed with this past spring. He's out of this same GSBR/XW based line and He did not throw split wings. Well, it may have turned up on maybe one K out of 16 or 17 hatched and raised, something like that. But, while we didn't get split wing issues, son-of-a-gun, we sure got too many crow headed females out of him, including that female that's in my avatar. Didn't expect that, but we got it.



Finally, here's the cockbird I used personally for my own breeding pen, at my place. Same line. I used him because I wanted better tails on the birds and hoped that he could help with that.

Some Take-Aways To Review​

1. All this shows why it is essential to keep good track of your matings so you know who is throwing what. You've got to know where/how a fault enters and correct your course.

2. Use more than one male. Use at least two quality males, and three or more if your operation permits it. Keep impeccable records. If something nasty comes out of one male you didn't expect? You may have to cull that mess, but maybe your other male threw nicer birds and that prevented a lost breeding season. Track your females as well. They contribute equally.

3. Hatch out 50-100 chicks and cull and pick through. Only hatching 20 chicks from a line that is still a work in progress simply isn't going to get the job done. The more chicks you hatch the more you can cull and the more you increase your odds of finding something that moves your line forward. If your line is inconsistent in quality, this is what is required, or it will take a long, long time to make the progress you probably would like to see.

4. Once your line is stable or is consistent, one could likely hatch 20-40 chicks and "maintain" quite well. But, there aren't many who follow this thread or post here who are ready to declare that their line is all that stable. I have a couple White Rock lines that are really quite stable. It is amazing how "level" they are. This reflects the hard, hard work of those made them a few years back. The kudos go to them. My job is just keep them sharp.

So, 2015 is dawning cold, crisp and clear. A whole new season approaches and for some of us, it's a "do over" and for all of us, hope springs eternal for a great breeding/hatching year.



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