The Welsummer Thread!!!!

[JulesChicks]

FWIW, I bought my Wellies from a breeder who definitely did not start with hatchery stock but I can't remember anything about the line. BUT, he is still working out the kinks. Sometimes his birds have feather stubs on the shanks - a big DQ. He shows and had a particular Wellie that would have placed highly but the judge found a tiny stub in between the toes that the breeder was unaware of, so it was DQ'd. My 2 girls each have a small amount, like one on one girl and 2 on the other - so I couldn't show them even if I wanted to.

I have researched many breeds, mostly heritage, and many breeders are working to improve the breeds and get closer to SOP- so it's certainly not uncommon. I still would rather support breeders who are working to improve the breed (breeding toward SOP) than hatcheries who mostly are churning out chicks for a profit with no real concern for being close to SOP (with very few exceptions). One of the challenges though is that unless you are near a breeder, you usually have to order a large number of chicks. That was my challenge when I was deciding which breeds to try - I wanted good representation of the breeds - which to me meant going with a breeder. I didn't really mind having them shipped if I needed to do that, but I couldn't find one quality breeder who had all the breeds I wanted at the number I wanted to start with. I was very close to ordering from Whitmore Farms since they had the most breeds I was interested in at the time - but their minimum is 25 chicks. However, they do say their Wellies are the friendlies breed they raise, so I wonder if their Wellies would have been better than the ones I got. I also have wondered if they have run their Wellies and their Ams together. The breeder I got mine from said he hasn't noticed any bullying between the Wellies and Ams.

 

[frmboyinthecity]

Plumage. I am a sucker for a pretty bird, and the more I read about Welsummers, the more drawn to them I am. BUT, I do need to have a good all-purpose breed.

Two follow-up questions:

1. IF I got into Welsummers (we have a large 1800 sf coop that I can bring into use), would there be a good market for eggs and chicks? More so than other breeds? I ask because I've read that Welsummers are relatively rare, yet a great backyard chicken. With all the pretty plumage, you'd think that this would add up to popularity...?

2. Where do those of you who have them get yours as chicks or eggs? I prefer private breeders to hatcheries... I just feel like smaller breeders can give more attention to the strains they're raising. Agree? Disagree? Experience in this with Wellies? I'm looking at this breeder, who posts good reviews (who doesn't): http://www.whitmorefarm.com/store/buy-day-old-chicks-mail-order-welsummer-chicks-shipped. Charges high for both birds and shipping, so looking at alternatives. However, to get an initial good stock start, I'm willing to spring for these prices.

TIA!

My opinion on this is just off the cuff. I have a few young Welsummers and a 7 month old rooster that was given to me, but I have been doing quite a bit of research getting ready to get more of my own.

1) I think there is a decent demand for them, although I think they get overlooked a little for the Marans that have a little darker egg color. I think in part they are rare because of the relative difficulty to find high quality breeders, and because there are conflicting reports regarding their egg production. I don't think they have the same demand as other dark egg layers at this time.

2) I have read a lot of good reviews of Whitmore Farms. If you are going for pet quality, he would be more than adequate, as I have read that he has some pretty good lines. He is one of the only breeders I have found that ships chicks. There are a few hatcheries that carry Welsummers, but they sell out quite quickly, and they are more expensive as well. If you are looking for show quality, there are various breeders that have some pretty high quality birds. I have read mixed reviews on if Whitmore is show quality, but I believe they are pretty solid lines. There were 5 original breeders who helped get the breed recognized by the APA and you can find descendants of their original flocks still. A couple of those breeders are still breeding and will ship hatching eggs.

I am assuming that you want the LF variety and not the bantam?

 

[Storybook Farm]

Yes, LF. And not necessarily show quality, in that I don't want to show. On the other hand, I hope to perpetuate my own flock and learn to breed. Will probably take SOP as something to shoot for, but will be more interested in breeding for egg production and meat. Those are what I need on my farm, and what I would be interested in developing.

That said, I'm very new to chicken rearing. We've only had a starter flock of mixed chickens since March. But that's our MO. We like to try something in a very small way until we figure out how that thing fits with our other lifestyle choices. We are farmers... not in a big way, but towards the self-reliant (is anyone today self-sufficient?) end of the spectrum, not commercial or large scale. That said, I do have access to an 1800 sq. ft. old coop on my land, and we have decided that chickens are what we want to focus on for a farm crop (along with garden, of course) rather than other livestock. So, I will be learning to breed. The question is what breed to start with and how big of a number to begin with.

This coop, (the larger of the two pictured below) naturally divides into 4 sections (the last, right door going into a feed/trash area) each with its own door. It could be subdivided into for "coops" easily, given its structure... each pen would be about 22' X 18'.


So, I can potentially house four separate, pure breeds, or four breeding "families" of one breed... or, or, or. We have 40 acres for them to forage, so lots of space. As I said, the only trick is figuring out how to grow my flock wisely.

 

[frmboyinthecity]

That looks like a great set up. If you want to find something with great chick demand, I think Welsummers can meet that, and with your set up, you could also do some easter eggers/olive eggers if you got a blue egg layer like Ams. Eventually, that's similar to the type of set up I want.

 

[JulesChicks]

@Storybook Farm it sounds like we think a lot alike! However, we have 5 acres and would love closer to 40! For reasons you have touched on, I am focusing on Heritage breeds - whether from the US or abroad, that have stood the test of time. You will get higher production from more modern breeds that have been created for that - like sex links - and of course Leghorns (but they lack the meat you require). You may also want to look into Dorkings, Dominiques, any Plymouth Rock (especially the Whites for meat) and Marans not saying don't go with Welsummers though. It just depends on what your main focus is. There are so many breeds to choose from! I, like you wanted to sample a few breeds and then narrow it down since I wanted to breed going forward. Now I am learning that if I am going to breed, I must have nice roosters - and to me that means they do not attack me or the kids! We had 2 Marans, dispatched one and now the other is getting aggressive. If he doesn't shape up he is dinner and that will be my last attempt with Marans roos. I am going to hatch Dominiques in the spring partly because I hear great things about the boys. Not as excited about the plumage as the Welsummer or Marans boys, but nice is more important to me right now. At some point I may try another line of Wellies because I have heard that the roos are nice, just haven't been impressed with my small girl sample of the breed to warrant getting at this point. Who knows, maybe I will order from Whitmore myself at some point still. Good luck! Right now I am looking locally for some gentle pullets to go in with my now lonely 2 Ameraucana girls.

 

[frmboyinthecity]

My experience is my Welsummer Roo is quite gentle so far, and his crow is kind of pathetic and quiet, which is a good thing. My easter egger roo is a little more aggressive and is much louder, but neither have given me any trouble yet.

 

[Happy Chooks]

But...... they're not the most prolific layers.
Egg coloring or plumage coloring?
If you like the egg color, marans are pretty meaty birds, but again not the greatest layers

Mine are good layers. I'd say I get 5-6 per week out of most of my birds. Older birds lay a bit less. They are certainly more productive than my young Marans.

Plumage. I am a sucker for a pretty bird, and the more I read about Welsummers, the more drawn to them I am. BUT, I do need to have a good all-purpose breed.

Two follow-up questions:

1. IF I got into Welsummers (we have a large 1800 sf coop that I can bring into use), would there be a good market for eggs and chicks? More so than other breeds? I ask because I've read that Welsummers are relatively rare, yet a great backyard chicken. With all the pretty plumage, you'd think that this would add up to popularity...?

2. Where do those of you who have them get yours as chicks or eggs? I prefer private breeders to hatcheries... I just feel like smaller breeders can give more attention to the strains they're raising. Agree? Disagree? Experience in this with Wellies? I'm looking at this breeder, who posts good reviews (who doesn't): http://www.whitmorefarm.com/store/buy-day-old-chicks-mail-order-welsummer-chicks-shipped. Charges high for both birds and shipping, so looking at alternatives. However, to get an initial good stock start, I'm willing to spring for these prices.

TIA!

1. Depends on what people are looking for in your area. I don't seem to have any trouble selling culls, and have been asked for trios, but I'm not at a place where I want to get rid of good birds yet. I keep them for my own breeding. I do sell hatching eggs.

2. @faykokoWV is a great breeder right there in WV. She has been working with her birds for several years now, and has great lines. You can contact her here, or on the WCNA (Welsummer Club of North America) facebook breeders group.

Yes, LF. And not necessarily show quality, in that I don't want to show. On the other hand, I hope to perpetuate my own flock and learn to breed. Will probably take SOP as something to shoot for, but will be more interested in breeding for egg production and meat. Those are what I need on my farm, and what I would be interested in developing.

That said, I'm very new to chicken rearing. We've only had a starter flock of mixed chickens since March. But that's our MO. We like to try something in a very small way until we figure out how that thing fits with our other lifestyle choices. We are farmers... not in a big way, but towards the self-reliant (is anyone today self-sufficient?) end of the spectrum, not commercial or large scale. That said, I do have access to an 1800 sq. ft. old coop on my land, and we have decided that chickens are what we want to focus on for a farm crop (along with garden, of course) rather than other livestock. So, I will be learning to breed. The question is what breed to start with and how big of a number to begin with.

This coop, (the larger of the two pictured below) naturally divides into 4 sections (the last, right door going into a feed/trash area) each with its own door. It could be subdivided into for "coops" easily, given its structure... each pen would be about 22' X 18'.


So, I can potentially house four separate, pure breeds, or four breeding "families" of one breed... or, or, or. We have 40 acres for them to forage, so lots of space. As I said, the only trick is figuring out how to grow my flock wisely.

Nice set up. Keep in mind that if you are breeding, you will need space for growing out birds. Separation of the males is a good choice if you are heavier on males than females, so as they come of age, they don't mate the pullets too much. Ideally, 2 pens would be great for growing out birds to evaluate if they meet the needs of your breeding flock. When you are not growing out birds, you can use the space to match up particular birds and mate them separately.

 

[JulesChicks]

My experience is my Welsummer Roo is quite gentle so far, and his crow is kind of pathetic and quiet, which is a good thing. My easter egger roo is a little more aggressive and is much louder, but neither have given me any trouble yet.

Good to know! My Marans cockerel can be obnoxious and of course he is showing aggressiveness.

Mine are good layers. I'd say I get 5-6 per week out of most of my birds. Older birds lay a bit less. They are certainly more productive than my young Marans.

1. Depends on what people are looking for in your area. I don't seem to have any trouble selling culls, and have been asked for trios, but I'm not at a place where I want to get rid of good birds yet. I keep them for my own breeding. I do sell hatching eggs.

2. @faykokoWV is a great breeder right there in WV. She has been working with her birds for several years now, and has great lines. You can contact her here, or on the WCNA (Welsummer Club of North America) facebook breeders group.

Nice set up. Keep in mind that if you are breeding, you will need space for growing out birds. Separation of the males is a good choice if you are heavier on males than females, so as they come of age, they don't mate the pullets too much. Ideally, 2 pens would be great for growing out birds to evaluate if they meet the needs of your breeding flock. When you are not growing out birds, you can use the space to match up particular birds and mate them separately.

Do you ship hatching eggs (for future reference)?

 

[Happy Chooks]

Do you ship hatching eggs (for future reference)?

I do, but I don't advertise it. Most of my energy is going into getting my birds where I want them to be. My birds aren't perfect, but I'm happy with the progress I am making with them.


The first layer of 2015 breedings, the darkest I have ever had in my flock. These are all from 1 pullet and these are her first 4 eggs. I hope the other pullets have the same coloring on their eggs.


Same eggs outside, next to a Marans egg. (top)

 

[Storybook Farm]

I do, but I don't advertise it. Most of my energy is going into getting my birds where I want them to be. My birds aren't perfect, but I'm happy with the progress I am making with them.

What would you say that your goals are, as a breeder?