Thin-shelled, pale eggs

[Ashes15]

Hello, I’m hoping to get some insight on my small flock. I have 3 birds (5yo, 2yo, 2yo) that have been contained in a covered run for months due to HPAI risk in Massachusetts. We lost a 4th (2yo) in October to a hawk and recently euthanized a 5th (5yo) due to an abdominal mass.

The remaining 5yo has scaly leg mites which we treated with permethrin, then elector psp, and continuing with green goo salve. She picks everyone else’s feathers. One 2yo is in great condition, equal in status to the 5yo, and lays normal eggs with strong shells.

The other 2yo (New Hampshire Red) has always been bottom chicken and is low weight. She didn’t molt last fall and has been laying unusual eggs for a few weeks. They are lighter in color, with thinner shells, and I think the yolk may break easily. Sometimes I find them broken in the poop tray. Sometimes I find egg and shell in separate places in the poop tray so I worry they may be breaking inside her. The egg in the poop tray is inaccessible once it falls in, so I don't think they could have moved it.

We feed Nutrena all flock (the 5yo hasn’t laid since her first season due to an infection that was treated) with supplements of soldier fly larvae and some veggies such as cucumber, spinach, kale, etc. The feed is in a steel Grandpa's feeder which is supposed to be rodent-proof and I think it is. We had rodent activity in the run, but I seem to have fixed that as of a couple weeks ago. Water is in a nipple drinker. They don’t seem to care for oyster shell but I provide it. I’ve been giving the NHR grower mash and crushed egg shells before I go to bed as an extra boost when her crop is emptier anyway.

I suspect Egg Drop Syndrome based on info from poultrydvm. I don’t really know what to do about it. I have a vet appointment Tuesday but would love more opinions and would like to treat her asap if I can because we go out of town may 4th.

Thank you so much!

 

[21hens-incharge]

Since your birds are all females I would look at switching to a layer feed in addition to giving the bird laying these eggs some calcium citrate tablets.

Stopping the low value treats may be a help too.

 

[Eggcessive]

Have you ever noticed sneezing from any of the birds for several weeks? Exposure to infectious bronchitis virus can affect egg shells and can lead to reproductive disorders. You may want to get some calcium with vitamin D tablets, and give her one for the next 3-5 days, to see if her problem is actually a calcium problem, or shell gland issue. Since her yolks are pale, maybe she is heading toward a molt. The cracked and mended egg in the picture could be from stress. See number 4 in this link:
https://www.backyardchickens.com/articles/common-egg-quality-problems.65923/

 

[Folly's place]

Pale yolk color is diet related, and not free ranging is part of this story, now that they are all locked in. (Mine are too, same reason, and the yolks are not are dark as when they free ranged.)
Shell thickness can be either because her shell gland isn't working optimally, or because she just isn't eating that oyster shell. You can add Ca individually, as mentioned, and see if things get better.
Also, even with so few hens, add a second feeder, and make sure everyone can get to the oyster shell. Also add a grit feeder, because they aren't out there getting their own from the ground. And cut out the veggies for now too.
Mary

 

[Ashes15]

Since your birds are all females I would look at switching to a layer feed in addition to giving the bird laying these eggs some calcium citrate tablets.

Stopping the low value treats may be a help too.

Thank you for your reply! Should I switch to layer feed even though the 5yo doesn't lay and hasn't in 4 years? I'm very sure because she's an Easter Egger and the only blue layer. I guess I could try to give layer feed to the NHR separately. Or to all of them on a short term basis to see if it helps. I gave the NHR 1mL of Nutri-drench last night. We got a shell-less egg this morning, but I'm sure that is too soon for the Nutri-drench to have had any effect.

 

[Ashes15]

Have you ever noticed sneezing from any of the birds for several weeks? Exposure to infectious bronchitis virus can affect egg shells and can lead to reproductive disorders. You may want to get some calcium with vitamin D tablets, and give her one for the next 3-5 days, to see if her problem is actually a calcium problem, or shell gland issue. Since her yolks are pale, maybe she is heading toward a molt. The cracked and mended egg in the picture could be from stress. See number 4 in this link:
https://www.backyardchickens.com/articles/common-egg-quality-problems.65923/

Hello, thank you for your reply! They do sneeze a little, but I don't think excessively. Everyone sneezes sometimes, right? The 5yo that we euthanized about 1-2 weeks ago had an abdominal mass and the vet thought a secondary respiratory infection. She had been breathing heavily for a few weeks and didn't lay much, though I think they were normal when she did. I feel jumpy every time they have even a little sneeze, so I don't know if I'm over or underreacting. There is no nasal or eye discharge. Poop seems normal. The 5yo EE with leg mites seems like she shakes/scratches her head and sweeps her beak on the ground more than normal. I was thinking I might treat her with Ivermectin in case she has parasites I'm not seeing. I soaked the bottoms of all chickens in Elector PSP, but I don't think that would help if something were on her head.

The yolks aren't pale, they are as orange as ever. The SHELLS are almost white, a little rough/chalky, and thinner. They used to be a pretty standard brown egg. Sometimes we get a shell-less egg, which we did this morning. I think you're probably right about the cracked egg being due to stress, possibly more susceptible due to the shell quality. When they aren't broken, they look like the photo attached here.

She's just over 3 pounds and I gave her 1mL of nutri-drench yesterday. Should I continue that for a few days? That has calcium, D, A, and E. I could pick up some poultry cell rooster booster if that would be better since it also has Selenium.

Thank you for the link. It seems like this is either a nutritional issue or a virus. I feel like there has to be a nutritional component because she's thin and lowest status, but there could be a virus as well. It seems strange that the others aren't affected though? It looks like either way the treatment is supportive care. Is there any point in going to the vet? I don't mind taking them when they need it but I'd rather save the money for something they can actually treat if it's likely this just has to run its course.

Thank you again.

 

[Ashes15]

Pale yolk color is diet related, and not free ranging is part of this story, now that they are all locked in. (Mine are too, same reason, and the yolks are not are dark as when they free ranged.)
Shell thickness can be either because her shell gland isn't working optimally, or because she just isn't eating that oyster shell. You can add Ca individually, as mentioned, and see if things get better.
Also, even with so few hens, add a second feeder, and make sure everyone can get to the oyster shell. Also add a grit feeder, because they aren't out there getting their own from the ground. And cut out the veggies for now too.
Mary

Hi there, thanks for responding! The yolks are not pale, they are the same orange-yellow color as the other hen (Barred Rock) who is laying normal eggs. The shells changed from a standard brown NHR egg to almost white, chalky/rough, and thinner. We are finding a lot of broken ones, and sometimes a shell-less one. Last time I cracked one open, the yolk broke immediately, but it may have been caught on the shell. The whites seem thinner.

Adding a second feeder is excellent advice, I'll have to see if I can figure out the logistics of that. It's an Omlet coop and run that's meant to be a tractor, which we keep stationary. Between bird flu risk and the difficulty of moving it with my disability, it's too much. However, that means it's long and narrow and hard for me to reach most of it. I might have to cut a door at the other end...

I gave her 1mL of nutri-drench last night (she's just over 3 pounds). Should I keep doing that? Switch to rooster booster? Just calcium tablets?

They do have grit and access to the dirt floor of the run. I was doing veggies for the boredom since they can't forage, but I will discontinue them.

Thank you!

 

[21hens-incharge]

Thank you for your reply! Should I switch to layer feed even though the 5yo doesn't lay and hasn't in 4 years? I'm very sure because she's an Easter Egger and the only blue layer. I guess I could try to give layer feed to the NHR separately. Or to all of them on a short term basis to see if it helps. I gave the NHR 1mL of Nutri-drench last night. We got a shell-less egg this morning, but I'm sure that is too soon for the Nutri-drench to have had any effect.

I must have missed that you have one that doesn't lay at all.

That makes things a bit trickier if trying to feed 2 different kinds of feed.

I wouldn't think switching for a few weeks would harm the non layer. It may give more to go on if the shells improve for the others.

I would do it.

 

[Lizzy733]

Might be the stress of confinement since they're used to a bit more freedom and the respiratory bug you mentioned. I have yet to have it happen in my flock, but I've heard its very easy for respo infections to 'jump' to the reproductive tract.

Has she gone through a proper moult yet? When I had high production breeds, the shell quality took a dip around 2 years old in general. Also, as mentioned, stress can be a big part of it. It's good that you know 'who' the egg is coming from so you can match it up with her behavior. I'd direct dose a liquid calcium for a while (as in syringe down the throat daily) and see if the shell quality improves.

Being the lowest hen and in sudden confinement, I would point the finger at stress though. Is the run on the small side? Perhaps a run extension or chicken tractor is in order so they can get a bit of grazing in. Will help to stave off boredom if it's something you can change up from time to time so she gets targeted a bit less. Look into boredom busters too. Even something as simple as chucking in a haybale can keep them pretty busy for a while.

I don't range my hens, but have always been very generous with space, giving my initial 6 a 30sqm run, and my 7+2 turkey jennys and occasional roo still have around 35sqm of space in our country setup, so mine haven't had the opportunity to get cabin fever.

 

[Ashes15]

Might be the stress of confinement since they're used to a bit more freedom and the respiratory bug you mentioned. I have yet to have it happen in my flock, but I've heard its very easy for respo infections to 'jump' to the reproductive tract.

Has she gone through a proper moult yet? When I had high production breeds, the shell quality took a dip around 2 years old in general. Also, as mentioned, stress can be a big part of it. It's good that you know 'who' the egg is coming from so you can match it up with her behavior. I'd direct dose a liquid calcium for a while (as in syringe down the throat daily) and see if the shell quality improves.

Being the lowest hen and in sudden confinement, I would point the finger at stress though. Is the run on the small side? Perhaps a run extension or chicken tractor is in order so they can get a bit of grazing in. Will help to stave off boredom if it's something you can change up from time to time so she gets targeted a bit less. Look into boredom busters too. Even something as simple as chucking in a haybale can keep them pretty busy for a while.

I don't range my hens, but have always been very generous with space, giving my initial 6 a 30sqm run, and my 7+2 turkey jennys and occasional roo still have around 35sqm of space in our country setup, so mine haven't had the opportunity to get cabin fever.

I'm sure they are stressed about being in the small covered run. They usually have about 1,000 square feet with plants and a boulder they like to climb on! We've been wanting to build a new coop with a bigger covered run, but got discouraged about the chicken ordinance where we live. We need a variance to put it anywhere that isn't directly out our back door (basically where our back porch is!) and it's...a process. I've been trying to figure out something temporary within constraints of the budget and rodent pressure so it needs to be rat-proof.

She hasn't molted yet and her feathers look AWFUL. I was giving them a bit of veg in a peck toy for forage/enrichment, but it sounds like maybe I should give that a break while figuring this out because it's not as nutritious? Honestly, I'm not sure how much she's eating. I brought her inside about an hour ago for a snack and her crop was empty, though I've checked at other times to find it full. I think I need to bring her in for snacks multiple times a day while I work on this.

Thanks for your input!