Tolbunt Polish

[acid_chipmunk]

I have some of baregretchen's Tolbunt Polish and they are gorgeous! She uses a gold laced hen for hers.

 

[TurtleFeathers]

Ok, VComb - I hate to hijack a thread, but since you mentioned developing a line of bantam tolbunts, I've got one for ya:

A friend had a pair of beautiful tolbunts - frizzled roo, smooth hen. The hen suddenly died a while back, so she housed the rooster with a solid white bantam Polish hen who also lost her solid white mate.

This hen has a single feather that is speckled with black and brown, almost in a pattern. The rest of her is completely white, so I'm thinking this is some sort of leakage. All we know about her is that she supposedly came from a long line of "whites", and that there is supposedly no other color in her background - but I know how white can be, with all the masking and hiding of other colors....

Anyway, the chicks coming from this white hen with the frizzled tolbunt rooster are solid black with the slightest hints of brown and white in their feathers - so I'm assuming the hen is recessive white. If she were dominant white, wouldn't all the chicks be solid white as well, regardless of the rooster's color? I don't believe she's a splash - everything I know about genetics is telling me that if she were a splash, these chicks would be 100% blue, or at least blue based.

I had three of these chicks, but 2 of them just up and died on me early on, I'm assuming because of the weak tolbunt genes. I've babied the last one along, and its almost 3 months old now <knock wood> - its smooth feathered, but I can't tell what sex it is yet. I'm hoping it will develop at least SOME of the same type of markings that Rare Feather's rooster has, later on down the road, but we shall see...

Any suggestions for a future mate for this chick so I can possibly work towards tolbunts? (a LOOOOONG tedious project, I know) I'm assuming its split to mottled from its father (the tolbunt roo), but I'm not real sure how to bring the lacing back out since this chick seems to have so little of it right now (of course, that could change later once it gets adult plumage). I have a bantam frizzled buff laced hen, but that's dominant white, right? Otherwise, I think my only option is a gold laced mate? And then I'd just have to HOPE that the F1's inherited the mottling gene and work on bringing that out later?

Of course, my FIRST choice would be a tolbunt mate - that is, IF I could find any that were available for sale - but that just ain't happenin'... Or maybe I should just buy some eggs with Rare Feather Farm when they find a mate for the guy in the pictures above?

 

[Crunchie]

They look like a herd of calico-colored chickens, that's what they look like!

I just love them.

(sorry, crappy cell phone pic alert. I am having computer trouble & can't get pics off my SD card from my "real" camera

)

Close-up of the feather coloration (keep in mind that these birds are juveniles, and the patterns will become more defined when they molt into their adult plumage):

But here's one (of several) issues with the variety--the bird pictured above will likely look like this in a couple of years:

They lighten considerably with every molt. The picture above of the bird with all of the white looked like the others 'till she was about 18 months old--she is about 3 years old now, and just gets lighter and lighter. She has nearly no black left in any of her feathers, and the white tips, as you can see, are overtaking entire feathers. Feather color/pattern is just one frustrating issue with these birds. There seems to be almost no genetic diversity & it's very hard to find breeding stock, obviously. I have had problems like failure to thrive in chicks/youngsters, broken/crooked toes, and unexplained deaths in seemingly healthy young birds (this is always roosters, too, strangely--and another breeder I have spoken to says she has had the same problem. Maybe some weird sex-linked genetic defect?). I really, really love them, but they are not easy.

I think the gold laced in Gretchen's flock is a recent addition (& I think it's just one bird). We'll have to get her to join the conversation, but I believe her stock originated with strictly Tolbunt birds (meaning, she didn't create them, she started with Tolbunt).

I was told by a long-time (relatively, anyway) breeder not to cross back to gold laced, but I also don't see where it is logical to do anything else (unless you are going to start over from scratch). The variety is in real need of some fresh genes in the pool.

 

[acid_chipmunk]

Quote:
Have you tried contacting Gretchen? (baregretchen) She may be able to help you out with what to mate and Tolbunts in general.

 

[TurtleFeathers]

Maria - I'm SOOOO glad you found this discussion - I was going to PM you and Gretchen and ask you all to post some pics!!! Oh, and BTW, that single egg I brought home from your place? Yep - it was a dud... <sigh>

Quote:
Acid - the original tolbunt rooster came from Gretchen, so I was looking for something unrelated. As Maria said, the tolbunt Polish breed as a whole is in desperate need of genetic diversity.

 

[Crunchie]

Quote:
Acid - the original tolbunt rooster came from Gretchen, so I was looking for something unrelated. As Maria said, the tolbunt Polish breed as a whole is in desperate need of genetic diversity.

I have Tolbunt Radar. Didn't take me long to find it.

My PM box is full anyway. I renewed my GFM this morning but it hasn't kicked in yet, and my computer is trying to die on me & is so slow that I am too lazy to go delete messages to make room. Pathetic, I know.

Now where's Gretchen? Aren't her ears burning by now?

Bummer about the dud egg. It would have been fun to see what you got!

The problem is I think all of our Tolbunts are related somewhere in the not-too-distant past.

Gretchen & I have been trading birds, which will hopefully help some, but if you go back a few years I imagine our birds originated with the same person. Hence the question of outcrossing to other varieties.

 

[acid_chipmunk]

Yes, I have heard that from Gretchen. We have been looking all over for birds or eggs and have had no luck finding anything. They are such gorgeous birds and it is so frustrating that there are so few of them out there.

 

[josh44]

Quote:
Ha Ha

the hackle color didn't even occure to me,

thanks for pointing it out.

I have others that are probably better, he just had somthing different about him,& wasn;t sure about him, but I am sure you know that goes.

Thanks,

 

[josh44]

Quote:
That would be just too cool - but what about the 5th toe on the houdan? How long would that take to breed out?

I'm not sure...I wouldn't think it could take more than a few generations...

You will get some chick without the 5th toe on the 1st generation.

Like when you cross silkies & N-Naked bantams to get showgirls, some had the extra toes & some didn't.

GOOD LUCK,

I'd like to see how they turn out if you decide to cross golds in & make your own tolbunts.

 

[chickenzoo]

Some of my babies I'm growing out.....

My roos............