Vegetarians ( and Vegans ) Thread!!!

[mimsy]

I was vegetarian for years. My reasons were simply that I do not like buying meats from the store that most likely came from a factory. Once I started getting meat from local farmers I changed. I do still struggle a bit with "should I eat something I'm not prepared to kill my self?" I suspect if I was hungry enough, or my family was I would be able to change my ways and slaughter my own food.

I agree that nature can be very cruel. However, most of us humans are used to an over abundance of food currently. It leaves us contemplating what mark we want to leave on this earth. What is best for the animals, what is best for the environment and what is best for our health. There is enough information out there for us to all form completely different idea's on what is a good and environmentally friendly diet and all be at least mostly correct.

Atilla-One of my daughters and myself both have celiac as well, so we feel for you on the restricted diet. On milk though-I find a lot of the nut milks work well in coffee. I personally don't like cow milk much though. In cream sauces or chowders I do like goats milk though, a little goes a long ways for a very rich sauce.

 

[oldhenlikesdogs]

This is a fascinating debate. I am often torn because I've heard it is cruel to separate calf and mother and I am aware of the pollution issue. However, I know there are groups of people who eat little else other than the milk and blood of their herd animals.
Humans are very adaptable and we are omnivores. It's incredible to me that those groups that subsist on animal products survive as well as they do.
For me, I eat my chicken's eggs.  They live a better life than a lot of people and are really my pets. As for dairy---my dilemma is that I don't take calcium supplements (recent research), I rarely eat meat and I have peneo osteoarthritis and celiac. This means my diet is already restricted so I think I need the protein and calcium of dairy. I know there are alternative sources of calcium but I don't eat that many greens.
I primarily eat yogurt and a little milk for my coffee. Coconut milk doesn't do it for coffee.
Thanks for the exchange. It is enlightening.

You and I share the same pains. I've often wondered if my arthritis would improve if I ate some meat. There are certain amino acids that are found in meat, and most of the vitamin B's are usually obtained by eating meat. Both help rebuild muscles and basically every cell in our bodies. I take a supplement but they say it isn't the same.

 

[Attila the Hen]

Oldhen

I know what you mean. After my tibia plateau (knee) break and 3 surgeries and 3 years of inactivity I wonder the same thing about what I need to repair bones and muscle. Plus, as you know, I'm no spring chicken. Still...I walked up and down our mountain today as I try to do every day.
I just try to eat well and take care of myself.

 

[Attila the Hen]

I was vegetarian for years. My reasons were simply that I do not like buying meats from the store that most likely came from a factory. Once I started getting meat from local farmers I changed. I do still struggle a bit with "should I eat something I'm not prepared to kill my self?" I suspect if I was hungry enough, or my family was I would be able to change my ways and slaughter my own food.

I agree that nature can be very cruel. However, most of us humans are used to an over abundance of food currently. It leaves us contemplating what mark we want to leave on this earth. What is best for the animals, what is best for the environment and what is best for our health. There is enough information out there for us to all form completely different idea's on what is a good and environmentally friendly diet and all be at least mostly correct.

Atilla-One of my daughters and myself both have celiac as well, so we feel for you on the restricted diet. On milk though-I find a lot of the nut milks work well in coffee. I personally don't like cow milk much though. In cream sauces or chowders I do like goats milk though, a little goes a long ways for a very rich sauce.

Now I never thought of using goat milk. I wonder if they sell it in the store and if it is keifer? I understand a lot of people with celiac are also lactose intolerant. I realized I was inaccurate earlier when I said I only really eat yogurt. How could I forget ice cream. Now that I really must give up.

 

[Attila the Hen]

If you ask most people where food comes from they will say the store. A vegan diet is built on an industrialized nation. You couldn't grow enough food to survive on year round. Most things are seasonal and crop failure can happen often.

Milk and meat have sustained human through those seasonal up and downs of crops. Without early humans domesticating animals for meat and milk most humans would have starved. You can't deny that history, nor believe this society and way of being won't eventually fall like all have before.

Being vegan is a short term way of life meant to make people feel better about themselves. It isn't sustainable nor could a vegan survive long without quick access to the nearest store.

Well, I'll probably regret getting involved in this but here goes. Our evolutionary past is as hunter/gatherers. Studies of present day hunter gatherers have shown that the bulk of the diet is vegetable based and the majority of food is gathered by women. Men hunt sporadically and if the group depended on them they would likely die.
As for the development of agriculture--our or my English, Scottish, Irish ancestors were too poor to eat a lot of meat. It was a rare treat for them as it is for slash and burn agriculturalists today. These guys have pig feasts on special occasions.
This brings me back to us being omnivores--much like our chickens. The big problem with wealthy societies, such as ours, is that we have placed too much emphasis on animal products and we pay the price with heart disease etc. Westerners in general eat far too much meat and here in America it is cheap cheap cheap. This was not the case when I lived in London. We ate a fair amount of meat but we still held the practice of eating it primarily on Sunday or at least making it special in some way.
Oldhen--you know we never ate at fast food hamburger establishments when we were younger--they didn't exist. This is why we will live longer than the present generation--in part--then there is sugar......
I do believe we could support our world on a mostly vegetarian diet with the technology we have. At this point we don't have to but one day we may. I agree--our life as we know it will probably go the way of the dodo.

 

[oldhenlikesdogs]

Well said Attila, that's exactly what I'm trying to get at. You are very wise.

 

[Athaid]

I may be young, but this is the world I have inherited, the world I will pass on. I care, I care so much it hurts. You don't realise what we are doing. At least look at some of the links I provided, at least watch this video:

Please, I don't know what else I have to say to make you see.

 

[Athaid]

Livestock and their byproducts account for at least 32,000 million tons of carbon dioxide (CO2) per year, or 51% of all worldwide greenhouse gas emissions.​

Animal agriculture is responsible for 18 percent of greenhouse gas emissions, more than the combined exhaust from all transportation.​

Livestock is responsible for 65% of all human-related emissions of nitrous oxide – a greenhouse gas with 296 times the global warming potential of carbon dioxide, and which stays in the atmosphere for 150 years.​

55% of water consumed in the US is for animal agriculture.​

Livestock or livestock feed occupies 1/3 of the earth’s ice-free land.​

Animal agriculture is the leading cause of species extinction, ocean dead zones, water pollution, and habitat destruction

A farm with 2,500 dairy cows produces the same amount of waste as a city of 411,000 people​

And so, so much more.
http://www.cowspiracy.com/facts/ Links are provided on the site, you can check it out for yourself.

 

[Athaid]

1.5 acres can produce 37,000 pounds of plant-based food.​

1.5 acres can produce 375 pounds of meat.​

 

[scrambled please]

I keep animals, they provide fertilizer for my food, they keep bugs down, they alert me if something is amiss; they clear my land and give me peace just watching them, do I want to eat them? No. Give me a nice bowl of beans, some greens and a cup of warm nut milk, with turmeric, ginger and cinnomon, I'm a happy content person.
I'm pretty sure if animals could talk I'd feel very stupid.