Vegetarians ( and Vegans ) Thread!!!

[oldhenlikesdogs]

Okay so we take cows out of milk production, now they are all beef animals and all dairy animals are slaughtered because no one can continue to feed them. That doesn't benefit the cows.

Separating cow and calf isn't that bad, you are reading too many human feelings into things, many species are separated from their parent to make them tame, that's the price of domestication, we provide an easy life.

Now nature is cruel, all species struggle to survive on a daily basis, wild species related to cows routinely have predators eat their young, as well as the adults. Humans have lost the daily fight to survive in the last few decades. This is the first generation to not know what it's like to not have food or basic medical care, and to have half the children born not live past 5 years old.

It's all a matter of perspective. You will never convince me it's cruel and I will never convince you it's not. Educating people means giving them all the information not just one opinion of it. There's two sides to a coin. But it's been a nice debate.

 

[Attila the Hen]

This is a fascinating debate. I am often torn because I've heard it is cruel to separate calf and mother and I am aware of the pollution issue. However, I know there are groups of people who eat little else other than the milk and blood of their herd animals.
Humans are very adaptable and we are omnivores. It's incredible to me that those groups that subsist on animal products survive as well as they do.
For me, I eat my chicken's eggs. They live a better life than a lot of people and are really my pets. As for dairy---my dilemma is that I don't take calcium supplements (recent research), I rarely eat meat and I have peneo osteoarthritis and celiac. This means my diet is already restricted so I think I need the protein and calcium of dairy. I know there are alternative sources of calcium but I don't eat that many greens.
I primarily eat yogurt and a little milk for my coffee. Coconut milk doesn't do it for coffee.
Thanks for the exchange. It is enlightening.

 

[Athaid]

No, I don't expect the world to turn vegan, especially not overnight. The dairy farms would slowly stop producing milk as the demand for milk declined. Dairy cows are slaughtered anyway, naturally cows live for about twenty years, but because dairy farms force them to become pregnant over and over again, they die prematurely at about aged four or five. How would you feel if you saw someone picking a watermelon and slicing it in two and eating it? you'd probably get hungry right? What if you saw someone grab a dog and stab it, how would you feel? Cows are sentient beings, they're beautiful and intelligent creatures. I have spent a lot of time around cows, specifically dairy cows, as my mother used to photograph and paint them, she still does. Cows carry their babies for nine months, just like a human. They have a very strong connection with their babies, I have seen cows running after farmers who take their babies away. It's sickening, and extremely distressing for me to see this happening to such kind and gentle animals. How are they any different from a dog? a cat? a hamster? Why would you eat a cow, but not a dog? why a cows milk but not a dogs milk? I provided information in the links I posted, I am not trying to force my opinions on anyone, I want people to be educated on these things so that they can form their own opinions.
Nature is fair. In the wild animals have a chance to live, to raise their young, they choose who they breed with, they choose where they call home. In farms their fate is sealed the moment they are born. Now that's cruel.

 

[Athaid]

This is a fascinating debate. I am often torn because I've heard it is cruel to separate calf and mother and I am aware of the pollution issue. However, I know there are groups of people who eat little else other than the milk and blood of their herd animals.
Humans are very adaptable and we are omnivores. It's incredible to me that those groups that subsist on animal products survive as well as they do.
For me, I eat my chicken's eggs. They live a better life than a lot of people and are really my pets. As for dairy---my dilemma is that I don't take calcium supplements (recent research), I rarely eat meat and I have peneo osteoarthritis and celiac. This means my diet is already restricted so I think I need the protein and calcium of dairy. I know there are alternative sources of calcium but I don't eat that many greens.
I primarily eat yogurt and a little milk for my coffee. Coconut milk doesn't do it for coffee.
Thanks for the exchange. It is enlightening.

You can get all the protein and calcium you need from plant foods. Also, there are many options if you're not a fan of certain greens. If you would like any more info on the topic I would be glad to help.

 

[oldhenlikesdogs]

Once you bring peta into it all intelligence goes out the door.

 

[Athaid]

If you choose to ignore the facts then that's up to you. I don't follow Peta blindly, I have provided a lot of information from a lot of different sources. I could provide you with many more links, links to studies etc.. but if you don't want to address the points I have already made then I see little point in doing so. Also I used the link to peta's site as it was one of the first links I found, but there are many other, more trusted studies. I don't generally follow peta as I have heard bad things about them. So yes, in the case of Peta you are right, I am prepared to admit that. But I still stand by my arguments against the dairy industry.

 

[Athaid]

Here is a more reliable link: http://freefromharm.org/dairyfacts/
Apologies again for referencing Peta, that was my mistake. I don't support them, all the info I have gathered, is based on experience and from much more reliable sources than peta. I don't condone the things they have done, don't let that take away from my arguments.

 

[oldhenlikesdogs]

If you ask most people where food comes from they will say the store. A vegan diet is built on an industrialized nation. You couldn't grow enough food to survive on year round. Most things are seasonal and crop failure can happen often.

Milk and meat have sustained human through those seasonal up and downs of crops. Without early humans domesticating animals for meat and milk most humans would have starved. You can't deny that history, nor believe this society and way of being won't eventually fall like all have before.

Being vegan is a short term way of life meant to make people feel better about themselves. It isn't sustainable nor could a vegan survive long without quick access to the nearest store.

 

[Athaid]

I don't mean to be rude but you are very misinformed on this subject.
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCE0yGL4Bgs2QNomOrslyLtw
A link to one of many vegan channels, the info is out there if you are willing to find it.

 

[Athaid]

https://www.youtube.com/user/BiteSizeVegan
Another great channel.
Also, as linked on my profile: https://www.vegansociety.com/