Water Belly symptoms

[ZedikerStation]

Hello all,
Yesterday we found one of our 2-1/2 year old sexlinks outside in the run at dark. She either didn't have the strength or desire to go in. We gave her a good look over and with the exception of her left foot curled under a bit, she checked out okay. We separated her last night in a crate with pine shavings. We gave her 1ml of Nutra Drench with a syringe and a bit of water to chase it. She ate an egg last night as well. Today, she has a swollen and hard belly. The pine shavings are soaked with a very strong ammonia fluid. I'm not 100% sure its water belly because it is pretty hard. Has anyone had this (water belly) with the ammonia discharge? I only have 20 ga. needles on hand and that might be too small to drain if it is in fact water belly.

She got a good soak to clean her up and everything else looks okay. Comb is still a bit shrunken but color is a bit better today

Thoughts???

@azygous @Wyorp Rock @Eggcessive

 

[ZedikerStation]

All of her organs appeared to be in good shape.... (compared to necropsy images I've seen). I did not include pictures of them as it was too messy to handle and photograph. I did photograph what I believe to be an internal lay. This solid and somewhat flakey mass the size of a grapefruit was in her abdomen. It was in a very thin membrane. There was only a small amount of fluid in her abdomen with a small amount of cheesey yellow material. This mass was what was the visable lump in her belly.

Comments? Thoughts? How long would it take for a mass to get this large? I found no signs of a shell in it.

 

[aart]

Nice job on doing the necropsy. Thank you for the photos.

Ditto Dat!
Everyone with a swollen bellied bird should see these pics.

 

[ZedikerStation]

A little sugar water and PND shouldn't hurt her.

Is this one that has passed lash material previously?

I'm really not sure if there would be a leakage, strong ammonia smell with water belly. @TwoCrows or @coach723 may have encountered that. But I have had one hen that I put down that had a strong ammonia smell - she had minimal fluid in the abdomen along with what I deemed as ovarian cancer. So...I would take a guess and say "some type" of reproductive issue is starting to show whether cancer, salpingitis (lash), peritonitis, etc. Only way to know would be through necropsy if you lose her.

Good memory @Wyorp Rock ... I think we are past the last material. That one has been doing great. This is one of the bigger ones that has never shown any symptoms of anything. I did get 4ml of yellow stuff from her abdomen, but that's not anywhere near the size of her belly.

The last one we lost went to Penn State and the result was Marek's. Obviously they must all have it, but these aren't the symptoms we saw in the one with it. She got a cal. tablet and 2ml of water, so we will wait and see.
Thanks you two! @azygous , has it stopped snowing there yet? LOL...

 

[Wyorp Rock]

I think I would give her a day or so and see how it goes.

 

[azygous]

Diarrhea isn't too meaningful of itself. It's not enough to pull the panic switch. It also does not give her an all-clear as far as a stuck egg.

 

[Wyorp Rock]

All of her organs appeared to be in good shape.... (compared to necropsy images I've seen). I did not include pictures of them as it was too messy to handle and photograph. I did photograph what I believe to be an internal lay. This solid and somewhat flakey mass the size of a grapefruit was in her abdomen. It was in a very thin membrane. There was only a small amount of fluid in her abdomen with a small amount of cheesey yellow material. This mass was what was the visable lump in her belly.

Comments? Thoughts? How long would it take for a mass to get this large? I found no signs of a shell in it.

Nice job on doing the necropsy. Thank you for the photos.
I'm not sure how long it takes for a mass to get that large. It could still be Salpingitis, just the lash material dropped into the abdomen and the body continued to add layers. Internal Laying is also a good possibility even if you didn't find a shell, with Internal laying it can be yolk/white that has dropped into the abdomen and was "wrapped up", but sometimes a whole egg can be found too. To be honest, they can look quite similar from what I've studied.

 

[ZedikerStation]

There are so many symptoms that look like multiple things..... it is so hard to tell from looking from the outside. For instance, her having difficulty using her left leg was probably from this large mass pressing against a nerve. (Uneducated guess). We are happy that she is not suffering any longer.

 

[Wyorp Rock]

There are so many symptoms that look like multiple things..... it is so hard to tell from looking from the outside. For instance, her having difficulty using her left leg was probably from this large mass pressing against a nerve. (Uneducated guess). We are happy that she is not suffering any longer.

I'm thinking I agree with this. The material peeled apart in layers, kind of like the small amounts we found. This might be why we haven't found any lash material for some time now. She was hiding it. Do you think it is possible for the lash material to drop into the abdomen and her NOT pass any more? Except for a small bright yellow area deep in the mass, that I thought may have been yoke, I found nothing that looked like egg.

One or even multiple lash eggs, egg material (yolk, albumen, soft shelled egg, whole egg or even "foreign debris" can travel back up the oviduct and drop into the abdomen. The body is then going to surround whatever it is with layers of "caseous exude". Lash eggs (Salpingitis) is an inflammation of the oviduct and generally those "eggs" are found in the oviduct, the body has surrounded infection with material (lashed it up) and then it's either "laid"/or expelled (these linger in the oviduct, this is why they are often "egg shaped"), but it's not uncommon to find several in the abdomen so, yes they sure could reverse as well. (Through Reverse Peristalsis of the Oviduct)

It can be common for a hen with a reproductive disorder to have a limp/difficulty walking or the leg become "paralyzed". I would say it's a very good deduction that the mass was pressing on a nerve. I've always thought so.

Once you do a necropsy and are able to actually see why a hen was in a state of decline, you really are glad that they are no longer suffering. For me, I'm always learning something new and by taking a look inside and this (for me at least) re-confirms how wonderfully made a hen really is. It also helps me reflect on symptoms that I have noted and I'm able to put 2+2 together so when I encounter similar symptoms in the future, I'm better able to make decisions about whether to treat, how to treat or if it's time to put her out of her misery.
Of course every time is slightly different, but when you understand a little more about what might be happening, you can make better decisions.

 

[ZedikerStation]

For me, I'm always learning something new and by taking a look inside and this (for me at least) re-confirms how wonderfully made a hen really is.

How true. And how durable they are. 3 days ago you wouldn't have known there was a thing wrong with her. She was in the top 3 or 4 in pecking order. Running around doing normal chicken stuff. They really can hide pain well.