We have persistant lice that will not die

[janiedoe]

For the last 4 weeks I have been trying to rid my chickens of lice. I have 5 hens 1 to 2 yrs. & 8 chicks from 8 to 10 weeks. They have probably picked up lice from the wild birds in the outer yard. They have sand boxes in the run with play sand, de, & a little sufer. They usually dust bathe in the yard in their self made dust holes.
I believe it is lice, no sign of mites at night or in the roost. No blood on the roost or under it. The bugs that I've seen are small beige/tan colored. I have emptied the coop, cleaned it and sprayed all surfaces with permethrin (10ml to 32 oz )and then sprayed the birds. I reapplied after 7 days.I didn't see any relief so I tried using poultry garden dust in a nylon stocking to dust them. I reapplied both treatments after 7 days.
The weather here (Texas) is hot 100+ degrees. My buff orpington is eating and drinking but her butt looks filthy and she just looks stressed to me. My wyandotte is showing some bare places but doesnt seem to be in any distress. All the others seem fine but are scratching & picking at themselves. I am worried that I am creating super bugs. I need to get rid of these pests.
I had intended to buy some additional pullets but I will not add new chickens until I get rid of the bugs. I also had promised a couple of cockrells to someone but I cannot in good conscious send them to a new home with lice.
We have two coops, both around 48 sq ft each with good ventilation, one run is 20x16 ft & the other 160 sq ft plus. They also have a joint yard that is around 2800 sq. Ft.
I clean the poop out daily from coops and weekly from runs. Fresh cool water every day and we use an all flock feed with free choice calcium and grit.
I am willing to try almost anything at this point.

 

[Latestarter]

You have used the product that I normally recommend:

I have emptied the coop, cleaned it and sprayed all surfaces with permethrin (10ml to 32 oz )and then sprayed the birds.

Since this has not worked, the next step would be to apply a product such as Ivermectin liquid to each bird similar to how you do anti bug stuff (front line) on dogs. I have never done this myself but I'm sure you can find threads here by folks who have that will spell it out.

For the run, their dust bath and the coop litter, I would cautiously recommend Sevin dust vice DE. It is NOT labeled for this use, and there is conflicting points of views on its use for this purpose, but it WILL kill mites and lice quite effectively and efficiently (of course normally permethrin/pyrethrum does as well) https://www.backyardchickens.com/threads/sevin-dust.591258/

 

[Latestarter]

https://www.backyardchickens.com/threads/permethrin-13-3.1262306/
recently posted...

 

[Morrigan]

Are you still actually seeing the insects on your chickens? Or are you just going by their behavior? Hot weather can cause a lot of stress as well as diarrhea.

If you are seeing insects, are you seeing evidence of lice eggs - little clusters at the base of their feathers? If it is lice, they live on the bird, not so much in the coop, and I've heard of people ridding them by bathing the chickens in a mixture of dawn soap and neem oil.

If it's mites, not lice, they live in the nooks and crannies of the coop and you may have to re-treat the coop. It's quite pricy, but I've read good things about spinosad, if the permethrin doesn't seem to be doing the trick.

 

[janiedoe]

Are you still actually seeing the insects on your chickens? Or are you just going by their behavior? Hot weather can cause a lot of stress as well as diarrhea.

If you are seeing insects, are you seeing evidence of lice eggs - little clusters at the base of their feathers? If it is lice, they live on the bird, not so much in the coop, and I've heard of people ridding them by bathing the chickens in a mixture of dawn soap and neem oil.

If it's mites, not lice, they live in the nooks and crannies of the coop and you may have to re-treat the coop. It's quite pricy, but I've read good things about spinosad, if the permethrin doesn't seem to be doing the trick.

I haven't actually seen any more bugs. The chickens are still scratching though. I am considering ordering the elector PSP . I am considering ivermectin pour on, as well. I can get the ivermectin at the local tractor supply so I may try it this weekend. I am going to clean and repeat the coop also. My fear is that I didn't put enough permethrin on my younger chickens to begin with, and thus created "super lice". I'm pretty certain there are no mites. I've tried wiping the roosts with paper towels at night and haven't seen any blood spots.

 

[Backyard Bruce]

Are you using the Permethrin at the right concentrate for initial infestation application of PREMISIS.
Seems to me you mixture is very weak, according to this I would have gone with a 1:19 dilution rate for the PREMISIS and a 1:200 for application on the birds themselves.

This is a PDF for Gordon'e 10% concentrate,

https://www3.epa.gov/pesticides/chem_search/ppls/002217-00853-20130129.pdf

 

[Morrigan]

I haven't actually seen any more bugs. The chickens are still scratching though. I am considering ordering the elector PSP . I am considering ivermectin pour on, as well. I can get the ivermectin at the local tractor supply so I may try it this weekend. I am going to clean and repeat the coop also. My fear is that I didn't put enough permethrin on my younger chickens to begin with, and thus created "super lice". I'm pretty certain there are no mites. I've tried wiping the roosts with paper towels at night and haven't seen any blood spots.

Could it be that the birds are picking at older scabs, or even that the treatments have irritated their skin? Lice and their eggs should be visible to the naked eye. I would carefully examine the birds to make sure there were actually still bugs on them before I tried stronger treatments.

 

[janiedoe]

Could it be that the birds are picking at older scabs, or even that the treatments have irritated their skin? Lice and their eggs should be visible to the naked eye. I would carefully examine the birds to make sure there were actually still bugs on them before I tried stronger treatments.

Will do so prior to another treatment.

 

[BantyChooks]

If you're still finding the lice themselves, I'd try bathing the birds. If you don't see any, it's probably just taking a while for them to feel better.

 

[janiedoe]

Are you using the Permethrin at the right concentrate for initial infestation application of PREMISIS.
Seems to me you mixture is very weak, according to this I would have gone with a 1:19 dilution rate for the PREMISIS and a 1:200 for application on the birds themselves.

This is a PDF for Gordon'e 10% concentrate,

https://www3.epa.gov/pesticides/chem_search/ppls/002217-00853-20130129.pdf

That's true. I did initially (1st time I treated) use a higher percentage to spray the coops and runs. The 2nd time I used the 1:200 that I used on the chickens.