What do vegans do with chicken eggs?

[nikki1]

Okay, so I've never owned a cow or a goat, but here's a purely personal note. I nursed my daughter for over a year, and I can say that there were times my breast pump was a life saver! It was WAY gentler than my ravenous wolf daughter, and it never once bit me. If I were a cow (and honestly there were days I felt like one!) I'd prefer a nice, toothless machine to either a gnawing calf or ice-cold early morning hands. Just saying...

--Nikki

 

[Nsampsel]

Okay, so I've never owned a cow or a goat, but here's a purely personal note. I nursed my daughter for over a year, and I can say that there were times my breast pump was a life saver! It was WAY gentler than my ravenous wolf daughter, and it never once bit me. If I were a cow (and honestly there were days I felt like one!) I'd prefer a nice, toothless machine to either a gnawing calf or ice-cold early morning hands. Just saying...

--Nikki

Nursed 5 of my 6...know exactly what ya mean...lol

Also, cows/goats can get mastitis just like people can if milk is over produced & not released. Anyone who has ever nursed a baby knows how painful an overly full breast can be. Just think how much more pain an unmilked cow/goat can be under if her baby doesn't eat fast enuf. She sure as heck can't go hop in a hot shower & massage her own udder to relieve the pressure or hook up the pump on her own to do it for her.

 

[shell3]

My only personal experience of milking machines is our local farm which was a sight I won't soon forget! I was invited to watch the cows being milked and had my daughter who was three at the time with me. The cows did Not go willingly believe me and they did not want to be milked, they made that very clear! My daughter cried and cried and kept asking why are they hurting them?! None of them had calves present as they had all been removed I guess they were sent to become dinner or were to face the same fate of their mothers.
not in my opinion a natural process.
However I believe we were talking about a pet cow not a dairy cow and drinking the excess that the baby didn't use in which case I would think you wouldn't need a machine as you would only be draining the excess not pumping them for as much as possible ?
I've never had a cow so I can't really comment on one as a pet or how much excess milk they would produce assuming they kept their baby but in my experience as a nursing mother I can say when my breasts were uncomfotably full it meant baby was hungry and the situation was naturally remedied! Lol
The more baby sucked the more I produced and vice versa when comming toward weaning.
I also used a pump once or twice and didn't like it so stopped , I imagine using it daily even thou I didn't get on with it would have become painful.
Is it not fair to say that some cows like some people would not like it or find it painful? The only thing they are lacking is the choice to refuse it.
Also each farm and farmer will be different in care and kindness.
When you had a dairy farm what happened to the babies? How long did they stay with mothers? How long did you milk them after the babies were weaned? What happed to the cow when it stopped producing milk and was too old to be a mother again? Sorry for all questions but I'm so curious.

 

[SkyWarrior]

I have a friend who is vegan who will only eat eggs from my chickens because she knows there is no cruelty. She won't drink milk or eat commercial eggs.

 

[Nsampsel]

I've never personally had cows either, did have a goat tho but she was too young to breed when I got her & she went to a nice happy farm to get spoiled after my 4-H project with her was done.

Yes, I was originally referring to a "pet" cow with a baby who was producing more than ample milk for her baby. As long as she is treated humanely & doesn't object to a machine milker I wouldn't see a problem there either. Milkers do come in small, single, portable units which can quickly reduce milking time (ie-the amount of time cow & human BOTH have to stand still) and let her return to her "cowly adventures." For someone who has a few cows, say less than 10 or so, and they get to roam the pasture at will & are fed & sheltered properly, I still wouldn't see a problem with the excess milk being used for neighbors, friends & relatives who want "humanely treated cow" milk. If we went back to the way it was 100 years ago, that's how it was done. The majority of people had their own small herds & provided for those who didn't. Cows were happy & carefree...not crammed in stinky pens. (And I'm sure they would have appreciated auto milkers back then too.)

 

[Nsampsel]

I have a friend who is vegan who will only eat eggs from my chickens because she knows there is no cruelty. She won't drink milk or eat commercial eggs.

She would probably drink milk from your cows too if you had them cuz she knows you would never mistreat a cow any more than you would a chicken.

 

[shell3]

Good point well made, I have never seen an individual pump unit only those awful metal cage pens that are riged with a pump in each stall and when I saw it they were forced and whipped into those stalls in a very cruel manner and you could see how painful it must have been for them as their teats were cracked and crusty with blood. I guess a pump more similar to a breast pump would be much more humane.
As you say, the way it used to be was much kinder than the factory farming we have today. Back in the day the cow would have eventually become dinner and although I don't believe in killing any animal for food at least they would, as you say,have had a carefree life and had the opportunity to raise their young.
a friend of mine grew up surrounded by farms and her family grew veg, they used to swap veg for milk,meat or eggs and she told me the farmers used to swap at killing time and slaughter each others animals as they would become too attached to their own! she witnessed some horror and is now vegetarian.
If you really cared for your pet cow and she had excess milk that you were using, and the cow didn't like being milked or had sore cracked teats I guess you would stop because her comfort would be your concern . On a farm making money from the milk I guess you'd have different priorities, having said that I don't wish to tar everyone with the same brush I know there are small farms that can care a lot and that factory farming is very different.

 

[Nsampsel]

As for the sore udders, that can happen whether they are milked or not. Some could be from the machines & some could be from brushing thru thorns/sticks/tall sharp grass...etc., or it could be from NOT getting the milk released when she needs it. I'm not sure if you have ever nursed a baby or not, but I sure have. A couple had problems latching on properly when they were first born which caused EXTREME sores & pain. That pump was a lifesaver!!! It was MUCH more gentle than a baby who was "chewing" & sucking at the wrong angle to get the milk (had to pump & bottle it for a while for them because of this).

Now if they were not washing the udders first & applying cream or balm to the areas that needed it then yes they could have been doing more damage...if they were doing these things (I know you have to WASH the udder before attaching the machine at the very least due to dirt/germs & contamination issues) without treating the problems then there-in lies the problem & where the cruelty comes in.

 

[shell3]

Yes i see, with a small pump and proper care I can see that it could be without cruelty.
I have indeed nursed both my children and had the 3 second rule lol if they latched on when I was sore I bit my lip for 3 seconds, if the pain went then fine if not I knew they were not latched correctly and would start again. After a couple of weeks I then went on to nurse for 11 months without discomfort but could not bear those pumps! Ouch! They made me very sore and I only used them a couple of times so Thant my husband could give the baby a bottle which he liked to do.
I think the difference lies in why your milking them, if it's to ease their discomfort then it's a kindness if you are doing it for your own benefit for selling or pumping them to produce more milk then it's not excess, which was the original question as no vegan would keep cows for milk production.

 

[sumi]

Our cows didn't get milked by us, they only produced milk for their calves. Completely natural. I don't see a problem with milking a cow who's feeding a calf, i.e. let the calf drink and milk what's left for household use, but we preferred not to. The cows didn't have a problem. Never had mastitis or any milk-related problems.
What I find cruel is farmers who take away day-old calves, refusing them their mother's milk. And those poor cows at the dairy farms who has to mass produce milk. Their udders end up rubbing against their legs until they got sores. I've seen cows that had to be propped up at milking time, they could barely stand or walk.