What do you guys think of these colts? Pics on page 3,6,7,8 & 12

[danischi24]

The fencing is from a distant farm in the bottom of Israel & horse fencing here sucks. Some people even tie a rope around their neck or front leg & let them graze on the picket. Trial run, um nope. Considering that none of them are broken in, it wouldn't do much anyway.
Yes, I train my stallions & can handle them through any temper tantrum or excitability that we may encounter, even bareback

I know I'm gonna get knocked on this but temperament really doesn't bother me. I've had tons of bad tempered stallions & as long as they have manners put on them & are kept under control as I do, there isn't much of an issue & I like the challenge. I'm happy with all of their conformations as riding horses. Now I'm just showing my options but my question was more, how bad is it really to back them as late yearlings/new 2 year olds. I've seen many unsound horses that were backed later & many very sound horses that were backed early. I haven't seen a trend of early backed horses being unsound & late backed ones being more sound.
This was my stallion in South Africa. I know where my hands were, I was shortening my reins & was about to stop.

 

[Orchid]

Quote:
You obviously have your mind made up on the subject already...sooo...why ask?

You don't have to answer that, it's a rhetorical question.

Good luck with whichever new horse you choose.

 

[danischi24]

I haven't made up my mind or I wouldn't have bothered posting til I bought the horse. I'm just looking for other opinions that come from personal experience & not what you were raised believing or being told. All these unsound horses, does anyone actually know what age they were backed at?

 

[patandchickens]

I can't speak for other people but what I'm saying is not from "what I've been told" or "raised believing". It's from, I'm 45 now and have been around horses quite a lot since age 9 (sometimes professionally, always a *lot*, up until the past 7 years or so when I had kids and brought my own horses to our property for well deserved retirement). From being around large barns and working here and there and all over the place, from what I've seen, early-started horses do not ON AVERAGE get as good or last as long as ones who were not started til later (3 or 4, and no 'real' work til 5+).

It is all ON AVERAGE. Like you, I can cite a some horses started young and rode hard and yet still sound as seniors, as well as some who were not started til fairly mature and nonetheless did not stay sound.

But my strong personal impression, from having been around for probably longer than you've been alive if that's a recent pic of you

, is that a significantly higher proportion of early-started horses end up messed up or prematurely-unsound than among those started later. IMO the biggest factor is not when they are first sat on per se but the fact that (as I believe I've said in an earlier post, don't recall whether it was this thread or another) practically nobody can resist the temptation to do MORE once they've been walking and trotting a little for a month, or six months, or light flatwork for a year, or whatever. And tend to base the horse's work on its time since first backing rather than its physical maturity.

(I do not think it's usually good to start them *later* than 4-5 if it can be avoided, btw, as they seem to be harder to get going well and possibly more prone to soundness problems in that circumstance... although it is hard for me to be *sure* since most horses in this situation were that way for a *reason* e.g. broodmares, neglect, early injury, etc)

"All these unsound horses, does anyone know what age they were backed at"... yes, when you have watched a bunch of horses from foalhood to retirement, you KNOW what age they were backed at and how they were worked and so forth

I don't have numbers to test the hypothesis, I am a person living a life not a formal scientific study. But, you asked for what people think, this is what *I* think, and the reason is, this is what I've seen over the past 36 years or whatever.

BTW if you want actual technical opinions on the structural qualities of horses you're considering (in terms of athleticism or likely soundness) you would really have to post more useful pics. I realize the sellers may for some reason not be *giving* you good conformation pics, but if we can't see them then really what USEFUL can we possibly say? Other than "don't start horses too young" which you do not seem to want to hear anyhow LOL

Was it you who was looking for a wild zebra to break to ride last year, or am I thinking of someone else?

Good luck,

Pat

 

[Rusty Hills Farm]

I know I'm gonna get knocked on this but temperament really doesn't bother me. I've had tons of bad tempered stallions & as long as they have manners put on them & are kept under control as I do, there isn't much of an issue & I like the challenge. I'm happy with all of their conformations as riding horses. Now I'm just showing my options but my question was more, how bad is it really to back them as late yearlings/new 2 year olds.

This is probably why my opinions aren't going to help you much. For me temperament in a stallion IS a big deal precisely because I like to compete in cutting. To do this successfully, you really do need an animal who is interested in working WITH you and not fighting you and being "temperamental". The work is difficult so he needs a good mind. We are a team. We like and respect each other. I have also bred my stallions and who wants babies who are bratty and mean-tempered? Not me. So from this point of view, I have to say the way I judge a good'un is obviously not going to be very helpful from your point of view.

As to the business of backing 2-y-olds, there is a big, BIG difference in starting one for the track and one for the arena. Plus a QH is going to carry more weight on the forehand and generally carry it on smaller hooves. The arena horse is going to be stopped HARD and turned fast. He'll rollback, spin, and slide. All these things are VERY hard on the joints. This is why I start my horses so much later than a track TB would be started. When to start backing a horse, IMO, depends GREATLY on what you are ultimately going to do with him. If he is going to run, jump, or cut a cow, the later the better. If he is going to hack over easy trails (as in no serious up/down over steep rocky trails and NO jumping) then it is probably going to be okay to start him earlier. But before I would make this decision, I'd look at his parents and, if possible, his grandparents to see what bone, joint, and muscle problems they developed over the years. I can do this because most of the horses I have ridden in my lifetime have been homebreds--born either here or at my brother's place--or born at farms I know well. Most folks do not have this option, so for them I'd say wait until AT LEAST 3 and preferably 4 to push these animals just to be safe. But each animal is an individual and blanket pronouncements are not really gonna be very accurate. Oh, and I'm 64 and I've been riding for almost 50 years, if that means anything.

HTH


Rusty​

 

[turney31]

No on the paint, I like the qtr horse but I agree to wait training. I on the other hand, I don't think training and the type riding you are talking about would hurt a 2 yr old. You are small enough. I would ease into any rider much larger. I do think I would choose the bay out of the 3 of them.

 

[LadyinRed]

Well, Here is a post from another fourm on growth plates and training youngsters, which, our vet has backed up this information when I asked about riding my two year old, I ended up waiting till he was 3.5 years to start him and that was lightly. He's been ridden 4 times this year and now he is four years old, still showing signs of not being very mature mentally.

"The growth plates in the knees close at between 2.5 and 3 years. Only after they are closed is it acceptable to even CONSIDER sitting on their backs - and if you arent going to x-ray to make sure then you'd better be prepared to wait until a minimum of 36 months, personally I like to make sure ALL the weight bearing growth plates in the legs are closed - thats around 3.5-4years."


All that stuff was a big discussion on one of the horse forums I frequent.. http://www.horsegroomingsupplies.com/ Pretty useful site at times. The post should be somewhere on the training section, I saved a few of the posts in that thread.

 

[onthespot]

For what it's worth, I have crippled a few starting them young, thought I WAS riding them lightly. Guess not light enough. Wasn't asking much of them, except what they seemed ready to do. Thing is, those ones highly bred for cutting, are wired for those moves. Their minds tell them to do it, and their body is built to do it, whether they are mature enough or not. What it "seems" like they are ready for, sometimes bone-wise, they are not. I can think of three VERY NICE horses I ruined myself. Not proud of it, just sayin... even if it feels "right" sometimes it is WAY not right on horses with that kind of breeding.

 

[geebs]

Very big of you to say that Onthespot. I too have made errors I regret in the horse world... I did start one too young... and she was 3... and I too thought it was lightly starting... We didn't ride her really till she was 4 but she was Arabian... It has been a battle with back issues ever since.. The real hazard for most horses isn't the knees... it is the Fetlock joints and the sacrial joint in long backed horses...I know now... Coon footed horses tend to show up around the age of 5 to 7 and that is a direct result in early shoeing and riding... It is a sad thing... If you are "jonesing" for a ride get a ready to go model.. If you think you can do the waiting adn the blood is that rare... Go with the one you like.. It is up to you... I personally can't have an opinion on the colt as the pictures don't give enough information... He looks a little sicklehocked from the pic... but it could just be the picture... Bloodline doesn't make the horse... (but it is a fun point of bragging if you get a good one) Good luck in your endeavor... I am a lameness expert in hoof and gait abnormality. I have worked with Horse Rescues for the past 15 years. I see them at the point that ppl have made mistakes and given up... Do what your gut tells you.

 

[onthespot]

Here's one I did not cripple, but sold as a started two year old to someone else who ruined her. Got her back years later.

Here's her mama. Crippled this one myself.

Here's one a helpful friend crippled for me, taking her out and "training" her for me, without my permission or approval. DANG!