What if it's not Niacin? Where's the upper limit on Niacin dosage?

Discussion in 'Ducks' started by dotknott, May 5, 2016.

  1. dotknott

    dotknott Chillin' With My Peeps

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    Okay, I'm at a loss here. I've got 2wk old ducklings, one that is showing signs of niacin deficits. Somewhere between A and B in the diagram below.

    [​IMG]

    Trouble is, I'm feeding purina flock raiser, and have been providing 136mg niacin mixed with each gallon of water.

    I'm considering upping the niacin in the water but I don't know what the upper limit should be since flock raiser should have niacin too.

    So now the question is, could there be another vitamin deficiency at play, or is this just this individuals ability to process niacin causing me headaches (I've read that some ducks may be worse at accessing the available niacin than others.) I've also provided Sav-A-Chick Electrolyte and Vitamin Supplement mixed in the drinking water, though only once in their two weeks.

    Your input is valued, thanks.
     
  2. Amiga

    Amiga Overrun with Runners Premium Member

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    I am going to think out loud, here.

    One is that it may not be niacin, even though you've got some pretty hard evidence that it is.

    Also, I feel that thiamine and other B vitamins, perhaps even E, may be involved. And I just know there is so much we do not know yet.

    Brewer's yeast has a good variety of B vitamins, and in cases of obvious deficiency I do lean toward B Complex capsules, since one can use the B3 in them to adjust the dosage. Storey's Guide recommends an extra 100 to 150 mg per gallon of drinking water.

    I don't know what the upper limit is, it may be rather high since this is a water soluble vitamin we are talking about.
     
  3. dotknott

    dotknott Chillin' With My Peeps

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    I picked up a B Complex this am at walmart. For less than $3

    The complex I'll be using has the following per tablet *supplemental information for feed weight in parenthesis from Merck Vet Manual
    Thiamin 1.5mg (4 mg/kg)
    Riboflavin 1.7mg (10 mg/kg)
    Niacin 20mg (55–70 mg/kg)
    B-6 2mg (3–4 mg/kg)
    Folic Acid 400mcg (1mg/kg)
    B-12 6mcg (20 mcg/g)

    Adding this along with the niacin I've already been providing shouldn't be an issue, since I'm at 136mg/gallon of water, adding 1 pill to each gallon would bring me to 156mg/gal. That is, if I hadn't already upped the dosage by 50% last night. That puts each gallon at just over 200mg right now and 220mg/gal.

    My plan is to supplement with the plain niacin @ 136mg/gal as I have been, plus the B Complex as the current supplementation clearly hasn't been sufficient. If the duckling exhibits other symptoms that suggest an neurological issue or a Vitamin E deficiency, I'll have to re-assess the situation and look for an alternate treatment course, but as I mentioned in a PM to @Amiga all the signs point to Niacin. I may also look into individual treatment with a syringe/feed tube if the duckling doesn't improve with flock wide treatment. This ensures that the duckling will be getting the treatment in the dosages I've planned and I'm not 'wasting' the treatment on ducks that don't seem to have a dietary issue.

    Part of my reason for posting all of this here is that I feel the need to illustrate that sometimes things happen despite doing "all the right things." These ducklings have been provided the recommended feed and supplemental niacin in their water (which they don't swim in) plus a water soluble multivitamin, and STILL one of the 5 wasn't having their dietary needs met.
     
  4. dotknott

    dotknott Chillin' With My Peeps

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    Okay. So, after a weekend of dosages I haven't seen any improvement, which would be expected with Niacin deficiency. I've picked up some nutri-drench and will start with that, in case I'm looking at a D or E deficiency. After this I'm at a loss. Any suggestions are welcome and appreciated.

    There's no evidence of neck issues with this little one, just the legs, and the other things I would say are standard with a B3 deficiency (most obvious being the slowed growth compared to the others, but enlarged hocks as well.)
     

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