What Is So Hard To Understand.......

[woodmort]

Given the direction this thread is headed, I'll predict it will be closed soon but I'll add to it anyway. There is a paranoid attitude of a few people that their chickens are so important that anything that could possibly be a predator should be eliminated on sight. Unfortunately some of these people are armed and/or have other means (traps and poisons) at their disposal and they make preemptive strikes regardless of whether the target is dangerous, whether it is a protected species or whether it is someone's pet. Their justification is that the target is a possible threat and needs to be eliminated. This is too bad, because with a bit of work and understanding much of this killing could be stopped. First, protect your chickens using fencing, netting, secure buildings and cleaning up the surrounding areas to eliminate the predator's cover. This latter is especially important, if predators cannot sneak in close to your chickens, they will usually stay away. Second, be on a speaking bases with your neighbors to know what kinds of pets they have and what they are doing to confine them. Let them know you have chickens, that their animals could be a threat and that you won't be happy if their pets cause a single loss. Tell them what you will do if you catch their wandering pet threatening or killing your animals. Third, keep the numbers of local animal control and conservation departments on hand. If you are threatened or see a possible threat contact them first to see what you should do. If the threat is a domestic animal then animal control should either come get it or at least give you advise about handling the situation. If it is a wild animal the conservation department should tell you whether or not it can be killed or give you advise on who to call to trap and relocate or kill it. In the latter case by killing protected animals you may, if you are caught, face a heavy fine and loss of guns, traps and the privilege of hunting.

As a way of disclaimer: I protect my birds as best I can. I have, within a few steps of where I'm sitting, a .22 mag with varmint light and scope zeroed in at 100 yds. I have been using firearms of over 60 years and am probably a better shot than most. If a coon, possum, fox, coyote or the like were to be actually bothering my chickens I have no qualms about taking it out--and have. I also have a neighbor next door that has or has had a malamute, Doberman, husky, pit bull (2), and lab, all have at one time or another gotten after my chickens and killed one or two. I know he does his best to keep them confined (invisible fence, chain, dog run and only allowing them out when their are under the family's control) but things happen and the dogs get away. I'm not about to shoot any of them when it happens because I understand and the owner is contrite and pays for damages. I also am on good terms with the local DEC and, if needed, know the local licensed trapper.

BTW: One of the things I ask myself when I read the "shoot first" and "SSS" posts is "What do these people do if some scruffy person comes down the road in front of their house and eyes their chickens? Do they think that this person is a possible predator, grab their trusty rifle/shotgun and blast him?" That to me is the same as shooting an animal just because its is in a family of possible predators.

 

[FireTigeris]

Quote:
All good points, if you want to search my post I have had a person take a chicken, only to bring her back about 1 month later near starved-

Yes there are people like that on the board, even in this thread- but that's not the prevailing opinion- SSS if posted after someone says my chickens got killed by a XXXXX I see it every day/night now.

Any animal that gets to my birds is very determined as I have taken every possible precaution- I can't SSS as I don't have a firearm.

Do to the two legged predator I got a nice dog that sounds big and bad, and locked all of my gates and my coop doors.

Human life is legally and morally placed above animal lives- always, nobody decides a bear's life is worth more then their own and lays in front of a starving bear... so that's kinda a 'straw man' position. There are laws allowing the defense of livestock, as there are laws preserving human life.

Nobody is defending the 'I kill everything I see' or the 'saw him spill its guts' type post- people have responded to those post by quoting them and giving alternatives.

I don't want our new member to think that we are all "bloodthirsty killers" nor do I want the misunderstanding to continue, it is really a misunderstanding except for three or four people on this huge board-

 

[nancyleeny]

I had two nuisance dogs of my own this past year that I had to kill. They were pups that I had obtained from a litter of 11 mixed breed dogs someone was giving away. They turned out to be chicken killers and uncontainable except by chaining them up....a cruel life, if you ask me. Killing them was a mercy and showed respect for my neighbors, protected my livestock and theirs and kept two more dogs from showing up in a shelter to be pawned off on some unsuspecting dog lover.

I am going to respond to this, and then get out of this thread. Too much blood lust for me here. Any dog, with time and patience, can be trained to not kill chickens. And what unsuspecting dog lover would have been angry about getting a dog who killed chickens? Are you serious? Most people don't have chickens. Too kill a dog that you are not willing to train shows a real lack of respect for animals.

And to the person who claimed that they can kill a dog for showing up on their property, just like a dog warden would do - even in the south, where dogs are treated the worst in this country, there are rules. A dog warden would take the dog off your property, and by law, have to hold that dog as a stray for 3 to 5 days. I know the law, as I deal with this every day, in many parts of the country. If your dog warden kills the dog, he is guilty of a crime, and if I found out a dog warden did this, I would push to have him fired and fined.

I do agree with the gentleman who wonders why some many are quick to grab their guns and kill, without ascertaining the real danger. And I also wonder, as he did, what you would do if that scruffy person wandered down your drive. Too much gun machismo around here for me,
Nancy

 

[dacjohns]

Nancy, if you still haven't read the sticky about the Predators and Pests forum that was pointed out to you I urge you to do so immediately. You are getting really close to the line.

As far as the laws, do you know the laws for every state, county, township, village, city, etc? You are making a blanket statement that probably doesn't hold true in all places.

I hope you are just uninformed and not trolling.

 

[chickerdoodle]

I have been in veterinary medicine and animal behavior and have rescued many animals all my life. I do not condone killing just because a predator is on your property. I do condone protecting your flock and family by great measures of security which I have. I would however, understand if after all that is done a predator is somehow caught "in the act" or actively chasing your flock or family you have to protect them and that may be by lethal means. It shouldn't be an all or nothing situation. We have brains to use to make that decision and hopefully we use our right and left brain in doing so. Morals are important and should not be tossed aside but our pets and livestock are depending on us to keep them safe too.

 

[FireTigeris]

Quote:
Yippie Skippie a great answer!

 

[sourland]

Well done, Chickerdoodle.

 

[Beekissed]

I am going to respond to this, and then get out of this thread. Too much blood lust for me here. Any dog, with time and patience, can be trained to not kill chickens. And what unsuspecting dog lover would have been angry about getting a dog who killed chickens? Are you serious? Most people don't have chickens. Too kill a dog that you are not willing to train shows a real lack of respect for animals.

Has it ever occured to you, Nancy, that some people just don't feel the same way about dogs that you do? I have trained dogs to not kill chickens...quite successfully, I might add, in the past. They responded well to the training in a short matter of time. They have lived with me for many years and were great companions and great livestock dogs.

Unsuspecting dog lovers around here live in a rural community. Calves are being born each day, as are new lambs. These pups were large breed dogs that had already killed livestock~my chickens, despite my training methods. I neither have the time nor patience to deal with dogs that do not train quickly and completely with my methods. To me, dogs are dual-purpose or they do not live here. They work for their food and they need to be trustworthy, intelligent and obedient. I have no room in my busy life for a liability, no matter how much cute fur it wears.

Just like many people feel that there are too many nice roos to have to rehab a nasty one, I feel the same way about dogs. I would no more let unruly, blood-thirsty dogs loose on a rural community than I would rehome a dangerous roo to another unsuspecting family.

Respect for animals? I have it. A deeper and more abiding respect for my fellow man? I have it~in spades. Your heart goes pitty pat for those poor dogs because you live in a different reality. God commanded me to love my neighbor. I showed that love by keeping them from losing calves and lambs to someone's backyard breeding accident.

Do you really think it is all that easy to do the right thing? It is easy for you because your "right thing" involves saving all the fluffies. My right thing was taking responsibility for my own animals and giving them a quick ending. Trust me...shooting my own dogs is not something I did out of blood lust. It was neither fun nor done out of lack of respect. It was done because I have integrity and the strength to do what is necessary.​

 

[lil'turkeymama]

even in the south, where dogs are treated the worst in this country

What???I'm sorry did you imply that southern people abuse dogs?We probably have more folks keeping dogs they can barely feed than anywhere else.Some people just can not trust the shelters to help because they know their 'pets'will be put down.Stop putting the blame on all the people that do help control the extra pets.We all have to keep our dogs and train them.Its good to get a new one,too.I love to take pictures,but the purebred papered pups at the pound are too sad.Today,in these times,it really is a good idea to give a dog a chance.You never know if he might be the breed standard that lost his home,too.


edit; Agree with beekissed.I remember my DH saying.You killed your dog?Yep,had to.He crossed THE line.Sorry,Mooch,not your fault,I didn't get you till 1 year old and it took me 9 years to figure it out.

 

[nancyleeny]

First of all, yes, all of my rescue dogs come from the south, where many people don't spay and neuter. We cannot get puppies up here, because the dogs are altered. Shelters in the north, except for big cities and very rural, are almost all 'no kill." I have come to see the south as a different country where dog welfare is concerned. I am sorry that makes people uncomfortable, but check the facts. Millions of dogs and pups are euthanized (gassed or heartsticked) because of a lack of neutering and spaying, and I see many dogs on this forum not altered. So, obviously, I am not preaching to the choir.

I am not a troll, nor am I uninformed, stupid or ignorant. I clicked on this thread, hoping to find intelligent ways to handle predators. I didn't expect people to gleefully talk about killing lynxes and their own dogs. This is a public forum, and yes, most counties in this country have a 5 day hold on strays, so to publicly own up to killing your own dog, a neighbor's dog, or a stray dog, when not in the act of killing your prey, is illegal. Amazing what people admit to on the internet where, with a little research, someone can report you.

And as for religious people, as someone here spoke of loving your neighbors, and that is why you kill other animals, please don't be selective. All creatures are made by God, and since a sparrow doesn't fall from the sky without Him knowing, I think he noticed you killed your dog. Have I crossed the line? Fine. Ban me.

Nancy