What is the deal with FG diatomaceous earth? Studies/articles please? Safety?

[EggSighted4Life]

It is also my understanding now that if you California residents use your fireplaces or wood burning stoves for the purpose that you purchased them for that Al Gore will show up at your front door with a SWAT team.

LOL!

I dunno...my girls make big dust clouds without DE added.

Eggzactly!

I used to watch a video blog on youtube about raising chickens and she has since lost my viewership due to claims of treating worms with fg de. She also claims that you can tell your birds have worms because the eggs have poop on them. Uh no. Just no. The only way to be sure is do a fecal float. Your birds could have worms and you dont even know it. I bet her chickens are lousy with parasites

I also saw that video, what a crack pot! Glad I'm not her chickens.

Misinformation abounds.....most youtubers are in it for their own 'fame'.

Yes, free speech doesn't seem so free when lives are actively being effected.

I'm just thankful to have a good dose of common sense and some discernment to weed through all the nonsense.

 

[Helloworld]

I use red clay brand DE for flies and dust baths. It has silica which is basically microscopic glass which is used to cut bugs when they walk across. Reptiles can’t be covered in it without damage either. I use it to break ammonia levels as well. I use it on my roses to prevent diseases from high humidity and bugs. I have used for many many years.

I wear a mask as it says you should.
I also use it in their food to worm them by mixing into food and providing just enough water to make it stick to feed.
I have never used anything else. I have never had crop impactions either and it is most likely because the DE helps break it down. As far as respiratory issues, if you don’t use because you are worried your poultry can’t handle it, watch them create their own dust hole and grind the dirt so small until they can roll in it and completely cover themselves in it. Also note, there should be only about 5% silica so the amount a person or animal would have to breath to affect them is a lot.

 

[Al Capon]

I spread DE around the yard as an Elephant deterrent.!

Works like a charm....

 

[Shadrach]

Don't think we've got DE out here; plenty of hardwood trees though.
No worries though, I doubt Al Gore knows where Catalonia is.
So given it's kinda warm here and I don't get the stove running until....hmmmm, when it gets colder, and don't have anywhere to keep the requisite amount of woodash...hard of course...should I be smashing up bits of rock with a sledge hammer and feeding them to the chicken in case they have worms....?


(how exactly do you float shit?)
Fat Bird! Get in that pond!

 

[aart]

I use red clay brand DE for flies and dust baths.

Do you mean Red Earth brand?
It is mostly clay with a tiny bit of DE in it.

 

[Helloworld]

Throw out the DE... it is very ineffective in many environments (especially humid) on an many things. To me it is an over rated, over used, false sense of security that can be harmful not JUST to the user but also the birds, the environment, and so on... I realize most my link are mostly from the same site... but I still consider them valid...

https://the-chicken-chick.com/the-cut-dry-truth-about-diatomaceous/

https://the-chicken-chick.com/diatomaceous-earth-de-benefitrisk/

https://the-chicken-chick.com/raising-chickens-naturally-diatomaceous/

Lisa from Fresh Eggs Daily lost my readership when she stated that she WORMS with DE... What a load of crap with tons of viewers blindly following her ignorance... why not spend the money for before and after fecal floats... to PROVE if it works or not. According to the following link... it does NOT work as a worming agent in cattle studies... duh, it doesn't work when wet like all the inside of the body is...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diatomaceous_earth

The IDEA of prevention is nice... but you can't prevent what you don't have... so not having to deal with something doesn't ACTUALLY mean you are preventing anything. You may or may not be. Some locations simply don't have the same conditions or loads... when I lived in the city, NO issues. Now in the Pacific Northwest where wildlife abounds... I deal with their issues on my land. Dealing with something isn't what makes a bad keeper... NOT dealing with it if you know about it, would.

Best prevention... don't invite wild birds or animals to your yard, good flock nutrition, rodent control, and don't bring in unknown fowl from another pasture or location... standard dirt baths rock... turns out, molting is ONE way birds help rid themselves of parasites.

Oh and for me... it isn't just about when you are applying this dangerous stuff to you birds that counts... EVERY time I see them shake out a big cloud fills the air... for yourself, my dogs, bees, other flock members and CHICKS to try and recover from!

NO thank you.

Guess it's clear I am in the anti DE camp. My reasons are clear, but to each their own.

And I really don't care whether food or industrial grade... food grade has what maybe extra clay (or something) removed from it... I still consider it ALL to have possible toxic effects.

ETA: what is removed is Silica... that doesn't change the (alleged) micro cuts being made to every surface it touches.

Whats the reason for all of the hate?
I try to remember that 99% of all people do not even hear or pay attention to me.

What makes you think your ugly opinion will provide any help to any of us? What made you think one person’s opinion should be judged by your standards?

If something is not working for you, why are the rest of us are expected to believe you over them?

I am new here but I have been here on this site before and I left because there was more hen pecking than help.

I hope you will be there and contribute in a more positive manner for all of us. A simple “DE has not seemed to work for me” would have been enough but you not only blew all that up but also attacked someone else’s character on a website you enter and watched and mentioned her name and what you thought of her views.

Forums are about one thing:

Opinions are to be read, learned from and possibly find an answer to help even if it did not help you. It is also about creating a positive community for newbies who need help not attitude. I am sad to see this so soon after coming back.

DE works very well for my farm. I am sorry you did not have luck but it should also be said that not just any DE will do. I swear by Red Clay and it is worth a try. I have used it everywhere and no problems. It may very well be that environmental conditions affect its effacy. But that is something everyone should take into account and decide for themselves based on not just one opinion but many. I hope you find some happiness today.

 

[Helloworld]

Do you mean Red Earth brand?
It is mostly clay with a tiny bit of DE in it.

Yep

 

[Ninjasquirrel]

Whats the reason for all of the hate?
I try to remember that 99% of all people do not even hear or pay attention to me.

What makes you think your ugly opinion will provide any help to any of us? What made you think one person’s opinion should be judged by your standards?

If something is not working for you, why are the rest of us are expected to believe you over them?

I am new here but I have been here on this site before and I left because there was more hen pecking than help.

I hope you will be there and contribute in a more positive manner for all of us. A simple “DE has not seemed to work for me” would have been enough but you not only blew all that up but also attacked someone else’s character on a website you enter and watched and mentioned her name and what you thought of her views.

Forums are about one thing:

Opinions are to be read, learned from and possibly find an answer to help even if it did not help you. It is also about creating a positive community for newbies who need help not attitude. I am sad to see this so soon after coming back.

DE works very well for my farm. I am sorry you did not have luck but it should also be said that not just any DE will do. I swear by Red Clay and it is worth a try. I have used it everywhere and no problems. It may very well be that environmental conditions affect its effacy. But that is something everyone should take into account and decide for themselves based on not just one opinion but many. I hope you find some happiness today.

Everyones birds are different. If it works for you then thats great. Some people have a LOT of chickens and generally DE doesnt work for them because they can get overly infested. I have 8 birds and the DE combined with wood ash seems to work for me. So im going to keep doing it regardless of the nay sayers. Could it be Im wasting my time using it and Im better off using fairy dust? Possible. But I think it works so Im doing it. I say try it and if it doesnt work for you then now you know and its time to break out the chemicals.

 

[Mimi13]

I do not know anything about scientific research on DE so I can’t speak to any of that. However, I am plenty happy to tell you what I DO KNOW about DE.

When I first started keeping chickens in the spring of 2016, I was beyond excited, like most people, and found myself reading everything that was “best” for my birds. Enter DE. It was the all around cure all for everything bad that happened to chickens. So off I went to several co-ops around me, not even knowing how to pronounce what I was asking for. Yep, I never had heard of it, which should have been some clue to me if my granddaddy had never used it, but that hadn’t registered with me at the time. Several places had it mixed in with other types of gardening stuff, but I wanted the real deal for my chickens. So off I went to another store and showed the fella a picture of what I wanted. “Oh yeah, we have that right over here,” and he led me straight to it. I told him it had to be food grade, and sure enough it was.

DE in hand I headed home. Yep, me, the newbie was fixing to use what all the old timers used. (Insert pat on back here.)

Now my fairly expensive prefab coop was one that was advertised to hold eight chickens. Yes, eight, count em, 1-2-3-4, that was it, all that it would hold and fitting for another thread. So I had roughly a 3x3 space that I was going to “doctor” with the DE. At the time I was using pine shavings (I now use construction grade sand...in a different coop, I might add.) I opened the side door, which I added for more ventilation, and sprinkled away. Cool, I was on my way to really being a chicken keeper. I can’t even remember now exactly what I wanted to use it for. Something preventative I’m sure. (Side note: sometimes we want to prevent stuff that isn’t all that bad to just treat if and when it happens, IMO, hindsight being 20/20.)

Back to the gist of this story. Every morning I would lean my head and upper torso into the little coop to clean the nightly droppings. My coop was clean, my hens were happy and life was grand. After doing this for about a week or two, I noticed my nose bleeding just a tad when I would clean it (TMI?, probably. We can talk about all things poopy and gross regarding livestock, but it doesn’t seem appropriate to talk about picking your nose,) but I didn’t think anything about it. Well, I wondered why it was bleeding but I guess I just didn’t give it a second thought because I didn’t change anything that I was doing. Now bear in mind, I did not add DE to the existing shavings. One good sprinkle coating when they were changed out is all. But the coop and shavings were dry and the little bit of stirring up I did getting the poop out, I inhaled it. Needless to say my nose continued to bleed and bled all the time. I put two and two together and stopped using the DE.

It is now 2 1/2 years later. I am still far from being an expert, but from my experience gained, reading BYC religiously, and a butt load of common sense, I now realize that the DE was definitely what was causing my nose to bleed. How do I know that? Because it stopped bleeding when I stopped using the DE. How could I subject my chickens to that? Not only did they breathe it I’m sure they ingested some. Nope, nada, no way were my birds gonna suffer with me knowing what I knew.

I still have my container of DE. It sits on the shelf in my new chicken house, maybe as a reminder, who knows.

Oh, and BTW, I still have my little coop built for 8. It houses one cockerel. He loves it!

 

[EggSighted4Life]

Whats the reason for all of the hate?

Sorry it came off hateful... I love BYC and the friendly and CARING community experience, including the nonstop learning AND welcoming newbies... even if they are easily offended or have their own notions. It wasn't hate... it was passion for getting the truth out there despite people who SHOULD have more concern than just spreading old wives tales (especially when it could literally be life or death). Sorry you couldn't tell the difference in my intent. Saying that someone was pedaling what I considered to be a load of crap is not to me attacking their character... I didn't call them names or question their personal intelligence... HOW did I attack character... Please? The term ..
ig·no·rance
ˈiɡnərəns/
noun

1. lack of knowledge or information.

I feel that person has a lack of knowledge or information regarding THIS subject.

Again I'm sorry it came off that way to you. We ALL have reasons we react the way we do. Definitely don't let one persons' post change your mind about being able to enjoy yourself here!

DE happens to be one of those hot button topics. And my guess, people are passionate on both sides... I follow the science when possible... and if you read my other posts would see that I am open to new information and strive to be friendly and helpful, even if things don't ALWAYS come out or get expressed correctly.

Yep, I can be kinda hard core and to the point sometimes AND I didn't say it didn't work for anyone... but that it is ineffective in MANY environments and on many pests... I provided my support in links and also said to each their own in a FRIENDLY manner... and asked for studies or before and after fecal floats from people who use DE as an ALLEGED worming agent. I don't go for luck... I go for facts... after lots of research it is clear where I stand on DE.... without having to subject my pets or family to it. I don't need to try lead poisoning to know it's not welcome at my house.

Anyways... thanks for letting me know it bothered you and giving me a chance to review my post and response. I will TRY to be gentler even when I am passionate in the future... taking into consideration that not everybody can read my post and appreciate my perspective... aim to stay more politically correct... because BYC is an amazing and SAFE place with people from all walks of life willing to share their individual expereinces...