Wheaten Crele Orpington Project, Reboot

[MysteryChicken]

Nice pictures. Looks like the pullets didn’t want to pose, though.

They wanted to eat their Baby Cake.
Thanks.

 

[MysteryChicken]

I know that, and I just realized what I go wrong:
Mahogany is dark red.
Walnut is the dark not-red that I chronically mix up when dealing with wood-stain colors. Oops!

Mahogany can also vary in color depending on other genes that are also included.

Okay?

 

[MysteryChicken]

I don't know why, I haven't discovered this before.

I figured out the Ig, & Cb genes also create Buff when combined with Mahogany.
So does that mean not all, Buff Orpingtons carry Di?

Could the Ig, or Cb genes be responsible for the difference in shade of Buff on my one cockerel?

 

[LikeTurkeys]

The cockerel chicks had chocolate brown faces, & females had blond faces.

My parent, or F0 cross of Buff Orpington X Barred Rock, males had yellow faces with headspots, & females had brown faces with no headspot.

My Buff Orpington X Australorp females looked the same as the Buff Orpington/Barred rock female chicks.

You used a Barred rooster over solid hen, so all your offspring would be Barred.
I used the sex linked breeding of Buff Orpington, over Barred Rock hens.

For some reason I've never had a Buff Orpington/Australorp cockerel.


_______________________________________
My hen is an F1 cross of Buff Orpington/Barred Rock X Buff Orpington/Australorp X Buff Orpington/Barred Rock X Australorp.

Buff is made up of several Genes.

Wheaten = E^Wh/E^Wh

Columbia = Co/Co

Dark Brown/Ginger = Db/Db

Mahogany/Red = Mh/Mh

Diluter = Di/Di

Gold = s+/s+, or s+/-

I believe what you’re seeing is the difference between sex-linked silver and gold.
All roosters have either two gold genes, two silver genes, or one gold gene and one silver gene. All hens have either one gold gene or one silver gene. It’s sex-linked, so the roosters always have two genes and the hens always have one. Your buff Orpington hens have one sex-linked gold gene. I’m guessing your Dominique rooster has one gold gene and one silver gene.
Your cockerels with silver (white) leakage have one gold gene (from their mothers) and one silver gene (from their father). Silver is dominant, so that’s why they look mostly silver despite also having gold. The pullets have one silver gene from their father. The pullets have less silver than the cockerels because cockerels tend to get more leakage.
The pullets with gold necks have one gold gene (also from their father- with sex-linked genes, pullets always get the gene from their father).

Fascinating, thanks for that great explanation! I would actually prefer the silver in my future breeding projects with barring, so it's good to know that it's dominant I was also using the wrong terms -- clearly I'm just beginning my research into genetics.

So if hens only have one gene, either silver or gold, all of my pullets with silver leakage must not have any gold in them? And when I cross to a RIR rooster, cockerels should be silver & gold (but silver dominates) and pullets gold correct? I've only hatched 3 chicks, but they've all been buff in color with no headspot, so I am guessing they were 3 gold pullets Need to do more test hatches for sure. @MysteryChicken, no intention to hijack your thread.

I think you're saying it is not really caused by the hen, but is actually just a coincidence of which genes the rooster passed to which chicks, right? And hatching more chicks from each hen would probably have shown all kinds of chicks coming from the one hen, and all kinds of chicks coming from the other hen?

(Just making sure I understand what you say. I think that makes sense.)

Yes, when hatching from buff hens. I think I just haven't conducted enough test hatches to see the variation between chicks.

Thanks again.... ! Genetics is a fascinating subject

 

[MysteryChicken]

Fascinating, thanks for that great explanation! I would actually prefer the silver in my future breeding projects with barring, so it's good to know that it's dominant I was also using the wrong terms -- clearly I'm just beginning my research into genetics.

So if hens only have one gene, either silver or gold, all of my pullets with silver leakage must not have any gold in them? And when I cross to a RIR rooster, cockerels should be silver & gold (but silver dominates) and pullets gold correct? I've only hatched 3 chicks, but they've all been buff in color with no headspot, so I am guessing they were 3 gold pullets Need to do more test hatches for sure. @MysteryChicken, no intention to hijack your thread.

Yes, when hatching from buff hens. I think I just haven't conducted enough test hatches to see the variation between chicks.

Thanks again.... ! Genetics is a fascinating subject

Gold, & silver is found on the same Chromosome, so a hen can only be Gold, or Silver. They only carry one copy.

A rooster can have both genes, which are both gold, & silver. It's referred to as Gold, Silver Split. Also on the same Chromosome. They can carry both copies, but only one of each of the gene.

 

[RoostersAreAwesome]

Fascinating, thanks for that great explanation! I would actually prefer the silver in my future breeding projects with barring, so it's good to know that it's dominant I was also using the wrong terms -- clearly I'm just beginning my research into genetics.

So if hens only have one gene, either silver or gold, all of my pullets with silver leakage must not have any gold in them? And when I cross to a RIR rooster, cockerels should be silver & gold (but silver dominates) and pullets gold correct? I've only hatched 3 chicks, but they've all been buff in color with no headspot, so I am guessing they were 3 gold pullets Need to do more test hatches for sure. @MysteryChicken, no intention to hijack your thread.

Yes, when hatching from buff hens. I think I just haven't conducted enough test hatches to see the variation between chicks.

Thanks again.... ! Genetics is a fascinating subject

As @MysteryChicken said, pullets can be gold or silver, never both. Though silver pullets can still show red/gold coloration in the form of autosomal red, which is not sex linked.

Correct- crossing a barred silver hen with an unbarred gold rooster with give you barred silver/gold split (appearing silver) male chicks and unbarred gold female chicks.

Keep in mind that silver/gold split roosters will probably not be a completely “clean” silver- they’ll likely have yellowish hackle and saddle feathers and could also have red leakage on their shoulders.

 

[LikeTurkeys]

As @MysteryChicken said, pullets can be gold or silver, never both. Though silver pullets can still show red/gold coloration in the form of autosomal red, which is not sex linked.

Correct- crossing a barred silver hen with an unbarred gold rooster with give you barred silver/gold split (appearing silver) male chicks and unbarred gold female chicks.

Keep in mind that silver/gold split roosters will probably not be a completely “clean” silver- they’ll likely have yellowish hackle and saddle feathers and could also have red leakage on their shoulders.

Yes, I am seeing the yellow in my cockerels. It gives them a dirty appearance in my opinion. I do like the red leakage though... just wish I could have it without the yellow.

 

[MysteryChicken]

Yes, I am seeing the yellow in my cockerels. It gives them a dirty appearance in my opinion. I do like the red leakage though... just wish I could have it without the yellow.

Breed the gold boys, with gold girls to bring out more of the gold coloration?

 

[LikeTurkeys]

Breed the gold boys, with gold girls to bring out more of the gold coloration?

Hmmm... I could, but I actually like the sliver girls from the Dominique x Buff Orpington more than the gold.

Most of my crosses involve Production Blue hens, which are Rhode Island Red x Blue Australorp crosses.

This cockerel (Dominique x Production Blue) had the most gold leakage. I didn't like it, so I sold him. It would have been alright if it was just the darker red, but the straw yellow is what I wanted to stay away from. I'm guessing he had two gold genes, based on what I've learned from this thread.

Here is another Dominique x Production Blue cockerel (came from a differnt hen than the first). This one had the least amount of leakage. Silver + Gold? I would have kept this one, but he was missing one wattle which I thought was odd. So I sold him also.

Here is the one I kept (same parents as the second cockerel):

The lighting isn't very good in this photo, but he has more leakage than the first, which can be seen more clearly in this close-up of his wing.

That rich red is what I would rather have. I don't like the yellowish/gold color.

I seem to have succeeded in that aspect by breeding a Rhode Island Red to a Production Blue. Here is the cockerel out of that cross:

Again, the lighting makes it hard to see, but this one does not have any "yellow" leakage. It's the perfect mahogany I like the colors on this cockerel, except that he isn't barred which is what I am really going for. He is Gold Gold.

I'm leaning toward breeding just the silver birds because the red isn't that important to me, and I prefer that to having yellow leakage. With that in mind, here is my best blue barred pullet (Dominique x Production Blue). No leakage at all.

 

[RoostersAreAwesome]

Hmmm... I could, but I actually like the sliver girls from the Dominique x Buff Orpington more than the gold.

Most of my crosses involve Production Blue hens, which are Rhode Island Red x Blue Australorp crosses.

This cockerel (Dominique x Production Blue) had the most gold leakage. I didn't like it, so I sold him. It would have been alright if it was just the darker red, but the straw yellow is what I wanted to stay away from. I'm guessing he had two gold genes, based on what I've learned from this thread.
View attachment 2723206

Here is another Dominique x Production Blue cockerel (came from a differnt hen than the first). This one had the least amount of leakage. Silver + Gold? I would have kept this one, but he was missing one wattle which I thought was odd. So I sold him also.
View attachment 2723205
Here is the one I kept (same parents as the second cockerel):
View attachment 2723224
The lighting isn't very good in this photo, but he has more leakage than the first, which can be seen more clearly in this close-up of his wing.
View attachment 2723226
That rich red is what I would rather have. I don't like the yellowish/gold color.

I seem to have succeeded in that aspect by breeding a Rhode Island Red to a Production Blue. Here is the cockerel out of that cross:
View attachment 2723237
Again, the lighting makes it hard to see, but this one does not have any "yellow" leakage. It's the perfect mahogany I like the colors on this cockerel, except that he isn't barred which is what I am really going for. He is Gold Gold.

I'm leaning toward breeding just the silver birds because the red isn't that important to me, and I prefer that to having yellow leakage. With that in mind, here is my best blue barred pullet (Dominique x Production Blue). No leakage at all.
View attachment 2723249

All the blue barred cockerels pictured are silver/gold- gold alone can’t produce that off white straw color (unless the recessive lavender gene is involved, which it isn’t in this case). The last cockerel without barring is gold/gold.