White Sport Cream Legbars

Discussion in 'General breed discussions & FAQ' started by Brada Puhi, Sep 30, 2013.

  1. NICE birds!
     
  2. GaryDean26

    GaryDean26 Chicken Czar

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    Is the one in the top phone and on the right of the bottom photo the one that you said looked like a splash color as a young chick?
     
  3. Brada Puhi

    Brada Puhi Songster

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    Aloha Gary,

    Thatʻs the one. Still very white. Are the regular ones double barred or barred? Maybe heʻs just single barred? Anyways, Iʻll try breed him to his white sister in a few months.

    thanks, Puhi
     
  4. Brada Puhi

    Brada Puhi Songster

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    Are you Curtis?
     
  5. HaplessRunner

    HaplessRunner Songster

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    Well, the white chick that I hatched and posted a picture on earlier is a cockerel. Since I also have two pullets that hatched that are very dark with black under feathering in the breast (the breast will not be a salmon color but much darker) and black crests, what progeny will be produced from this combination? Just curious to check this out since the whites are obviously too light and the dark pullets are likewise, obviously too dark.
     
    Last edited: Nov 11, 2013
  6. I'm reading a book -- from 1928 or something like that by C J Davies - and he says that recessives (white in this case presumably) will be blocked out by the dominant gene - so there won't be a color blending --

    But since there are quite a few gaps in our knowledge IMO about the gold-cream-silver things - you may want try it. It won't be a blending of the two colors to lighten the females with the white because it is recessive...but other genes passed from rooster to chicks may definitely change the appearance. (who knows you may have the first CLs with no shafting for example)-- The rooster could pass things along that could change the breast color of his female offspring. Remember though that those chicks may carry recessive white (infact I think they would have to -- since if it is recessive he has to have both chromosomes white for that coloration).....
     
  7. Brada Puhi

    Brada Puhi Songster

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    Aloha,

    You can breed out recessive traits. Another thing to consider is the possibility of Incomplete dominance and co-dominance, which is a blending or both being present like barring perhaps.

    Thatʻs all I know.

    Haha

    Puhi
     
  8. whoo Hoo -- you know more than I do. Also they say that a white chicken holds a LOT of other genetics if the white is dominant white...so who knows what's in the genetic soup. It will be interesting to see what y'all will end up with once you start pairing whites with regular CLs.... and who knows eventually white CLs with white CLs.....They are pretty chickens, and you really can see type without distraction. The founder of our registered cattle breed once made a statement to the effect he wished that he could get glasses that removed the coloration so he could judge the animal without this distraction of color. And....when you do those pairings...you really need to keep good records, because it will probably reveal quite a lot about the white coloration's underlying genetics.
     
  9. HaplessRunner

    HaplessRunner Songster

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    LOL- all we need now is for Niclandia and KPenney to weigh in on this subject! [​IMG] Not joking - it would be interesting.
     
  10. Oh - BTW, if you haven't visited this site yet, it is really interesting
    http://kippenjungle.nl/basisEN.htm#berkenEN

    And the chicken calculator made by Henk69 on BYC - you can play around with some color combinations - such as recessive white, dominant white, and barring and see what you could come up with -- Of course it is a computer program and based on the dominant and recessive etc. and what you KNOW -- there is a lot you don't know in the birds genetics...

    Henk is a genius here is another of the calculators
    http://kippenjungle.nl/Overzicht.htm#kipcalculator

    ETA - Okay-- after putting up that link...I went to the Chicken calculator -- Tim Adkerson had given me some genetic information regarding Cream Legbars -- long time ago....
    Crested Cream legbar (CCL) are wild type (gold duck wing), sex linked barred, and carry the cream gene. They also carry a form of autosomal red.
    and the genes he listed are e+/e+, s+/s+, B/B or B/w, w/w, Id/Id or Id/w, Cr/Cr, O/O -- the Id, Cr and O don't show on the chicken calculator...


    Plug these genes in -- or start with the gold duckwing and add barring B/Bfor the male; B/- for the female s+/s+ for gold, and ig/ig for cream....when you calculate you will get an image of the Cream legbar that some are calling 'gold' - Then go to the S-locus and swiitch out the s+/s+ for S/S and you will get the cream legbar that some are calling 'true' because of genetics....but actually..... it's silver.

    Go to the barring genetics B-locus and switch B/B to B^sd/B^sd and look at what happens. A female of this genetics has what is called ghost barring and it is very rare but the male appears WHITE SO if your female haS ghost barring -- perhaps that is the source of the white CLs- but I haven't heard of ghost barring so I doubt that it is....isn't that just fascinating?

    ETA - GaryDean26 sent me this better/newer version of Henk's chicken calculator - you can enter Cr and O/O and ID for shank color etc.-- so it is a fuller picture of the chicken, however the PLUMAGE color doesn't vary because that isn't decided by the shank, crest and egg color genetics...BTW and if you click on the Punnett square thing etc. you can see how many chicks you need to hatch to get what you want, and the liklihood of that -- if, for example you have one that is crestless and you want to develop crests....

    http://kippenjungle.nl/kruisingCQ.html?mgt=&fgt=&
     
    Last edited: Nov 13, 2013

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