American soldiers, seeking refugee status in Canada

[thaiturkey]

I know that the OP is about a US issue but it's also a general one in any army that sees action.

The young people who enlist or, in certain times are conscripted, cannot foresee the horrors that they might experience in action whatever training they might get beforehand. I have no personal experience but things that I have heard and read and the PTSD (shell shock it was once called) sufferers that I have met in paste years show that the reality is very different from the anticipated. In addition to 'normal' action, criminal actions during some recent conflicts must add to the suffering of most military personnel.

In civilian life, if you can't hack the job, you can leave. Not so in any military. It cannot be made easy to leave, especially when there's war to fight. On the other hand, what's the use of a soldier who has succumbed to psychological stress? Someone has called them cowards but that must be a judgement from someone who lacks first hand experience, empathy or imagination.

I can't imagine what the right way to deal with this problem is but there must surely be some professional support that can diagnose a problem and recommend a solution. In the case in question, there doesn't seem to me much available by way of facts about the condition or motives of those who went to Canada so it's futile to attempt to judge them.

 

[hemet dennis]

I know that the OP is about a US issue but it's also a general one in any army that sees action.

The young people who enlist or, in certain times are conscripted, cannot foresee the horrors that they might experience in action whatever training they might get beforehand. I have no personal experience but things that I have heard and read and the PTSD (shell shock it was once called) sufferers that I have met in paste years show that the reality is very different from the anticipated. In addition to 'normal' action, criminal actions during some recent conflicts must add to the suffering of most military personnel.

In civilian life, if you can't hack the job, you can leave. Not so in any military. It cannot be made easy to leave, especially when there's war to fight. On the other hand, what's the use of a soldier who has succumbed to psychological stress? Someone has called them cowards but that must be a judgement from someone who lacks first hand experience, empathy or imagination.

I can't imagine what the right way to deal with this problem is but there must surely be some professional support that can diagnose a problem and recommend a solution. In the case in question, there doesn't seem to me much available by way of facts about the condition or motives of those who went to Canada so it's futile to attempt to judge them.

When they refuse their first assignment to a combat zone then they have decided to not follow legal orders. As others have said, as a soldier you don't get to pick what wars you'll fight and what ones you wont.

 

[thaiturkey]

When they refuse their first assignment to a combat zone then they have decided to not follow legal orders. As others have said, as a soldier you don't get to pick what wars you'll fight and what ones you wont.

Is that what they did?

 

[hemet dennis]

Quote: Some have never seen a combat area and all have claimed they're against this war not all war. Some picked jobs in the military that would almost for sure put them in combat .

 

[thaiturkey]

Some have never seen a combat area and all have claimed they're against this war not all war. Some picked jobs in the military that would almost for sure put them in combat .

I'd agree that, if one volunteers for military service, one doesn't have the right to pick one's assignment. Becoming emotional or physically damaged as a result of combat is different.

When we had the 'Troubles' in Northern Ireland and the government sent in the troops to quell some of the violence, the same thing cropped up. Let's leave aside what I think about the government handling of that affair. People joined the military after the whatsit hit the fan and then complained that they were sent to NI. I can only imagine that many of them joined to learn a trade or get the only job for which they might be qualified. But, if you volunteer when there's already a war on, you have no excuse. If you disagree with your country's military adventure, then don't sign up.

 

[oldrooster]

Quote: I was told by an acquaintance that during Vietnam he knew several people who didn't want to be drafted but where told by friends or acquaintances on draft boards their name was on the list so they enlisted in the navy, air force, and coast guard to try to avoid combat, which makes me wonder if all these people in small towns who felt forced to enlist so they could have a job why the army or marines where they had the highest probability of being in a war zone???? I understand nobody really wants to go to war, but if you felt forced into the military for a job then why do you try to make sure you join a branch with a less of a chance of being in combat, I realize ships and military bases are attacked, but why lessen the chances of being in the direct line of fire????

 

[yinepu]

I was told by an acquaintance that during Vietnam he knew several people who didn't want to be drafted but where told by friends or acquaintances on draft boards their name was on the list so they enlisted in the navy, air force, and coast guard to try to avoid combat, which makes me wonder if all these people in small towns who felt forced to enlist so they could have a job why the army or marines where they had the highest probability of being in a war zone???? I understand nobody really wants to go to war, but if you felt forced into the military for a job then why do you try to make sure you join a branch with a less of a chance of being in combat, I realize ships and military bases are attacked, but why lessen the chances of being in the direct line of fire????

For my husband it was a simple choice. family tradition. His father and grandfather were both Army.. as well as his great grandfather. So when the recruiter came around there was no question. He was fresh out of high school and felt that the Army was the way to go. He didn't feel forced to enlist. he had a job working at a pizza parlor at the time. He just weighed his options, considered what his father and grandfather had done and made the choice to sign up. I'm sure the recruiter also had some influence over his choice. But in the end it was his decision. Had he wanted to stay "safe at home" he would have stayed at his minimum wage job and hoped for something better. But he felt there were more perks to joining than what his current job offered. He never felt "forced" to join. But he did feel that as an adult it was only right for him to make his own way in life and not continue to leech off his parents like so many other kids do. He is also not the kind who would sit back and cool his heels in a cushy job while friends of his were giving everything they could. The guys he works with are like family to him. They watch each others back and would not ask anyone to do a job that they would not do themselves.

I don't know if you realize it or not.. but there are a lot of guys in the Army who have been just as long as my husband and have never set foot in a war zone.. have never been deployed and whose jobs on post aren't much different than his. he was just one of the unlucky ones who keeps ending up having to go back over there over and over again. There is actually one guy who is in the exact same unit as him who has never been deployed. They both have the exact same job description.. yet the other guy stays back every time the others go. And it's not because of a medical reason.

Some branches of the military are also harder to get into than others. The Air Force is extremely picky. Even though my husband would have met many of their requirements (possibly all of them) he never bothered to pursue it because of his family and the choices they had made over the years.

 

[kstaven]

I normally avoid these threads like the plague because they are so heated, but in this one felt compelled to add one thing. Agree or disagree with these guys jumping ship and going to Canada one thing in this discussion is missed. Maybe it is a good thing they did. A person who panics, freezes or runs under pressure, or does something completely stupid could get a lot of their comrades killed. The system by nature normally filters these guys out. But at times some that should never be there slip through the cracks and are forced to stay.

 

[thaiturkey]

I normally avoid these threads like the plague because they are so heated, but in this one felt compelled to add one thing. Agree or disagree with these guys jumping ship and going to Canada one thing in this discussion is missed. Maybe it is a good thing they did. A person who panics, freezes or runs under pressure, or does something completely stupid could get a lot of their comrades killed. The system by nature normally filters these guys out. But at times some that should never be there slip through the cracks and are forced to stay.

I wonder, though, why they weren't identified as unsuitable during basic training. Also, recruits should never assume that they will have a quiet life in the forces. The military is there to fight with all that that implies. A spell of peace can't be expected to last for a whole career.

 

[yinepu]

I wonder, though, why they weren't identified as unsuitable during basic training. Also, recruits should never assume that they will have a quiet life in the forces. The military is there to fight with all that that implies. A spell of peace can't be expected to last for a whole career.

But not EVERYONE who joins the military will ever see a battle zone. Just because someone signs up does NOT mean they WILL ever set foot in a battle zone. The example I stated above is not an isolated incident. Take right now for example. If a person were to sign up the chances of them ever going to afghanistan or Iraq would be very slim especially since they like to send the same guys back over and over again. BTW... Only about 10 percent of the 2.4 million service members who have fought in Iraq and Afghanistan deployed three or more times. And as of 2010, 13% of soldiers were considered to be "non-deployable".. that is not including the ones who just never get deployed by whatever luck of the drawl.
As i stated above..

"I don't know if you realize it or not.. but there are a lot of guys in the Army who have been just as long as my husband and have never set foot in a war zone.. have never been deployed and whose jobs on post aren't much different than his. he was just one of the unlucky ones who keeps ending up having to go back over there over and over again. There is actually one guy who is in the exact same unit as him who has never been deployed. They both have the exact same job description.. yet the other guy stays back every time the others go. And it's not because of a medical reason. "