American soldiers, seeking refugee status in Canada

[Kilsharion]

I wonder, though, why they weren't identified as unsuitable during basic training. Also, recruits should never assume that they will have a quiet life in the forces. The military is there to fight with all that that implies. A spell of peace can't be expected to last for a whole career.

The reason why is quite easy to understand once you take a look at the difference between basic training today versus even just 30 years ago. There have been such constraints placed on the people "in charge" during basic training that they might as well wipe your nose and pat you on the head as call it basic training. They aren't allowed to be nearly as tough and rough with you as they were years ago. Too many people whined about their poor, sweet child being traumatized - the ____? Seriously? Yes, they did...and, yes, they actually got results. So - people pretty much breeze through basic training now days (it was easier for me to go through basic training - even the 30 years ago that I went through - than it was for me to be at home and do my chores and fulfill my obligations there on the farm while going to school and working. I breezed through my training. I breezed through paratrooper training. I dug it up and ate it for breakfast, lunch and dinner. It was what I was good at. But - take someone who goes through the same thing I went through 30 years ago? They'd not even begin to think it was the same thing. It's night and day. And, what I went through to get in was even easier than what my father and his father had to go through. It's a joke, and only the weakest, most unstable and unsuitable are caught because of it. People wanted it to be easier for their children, and all they did was make it so much worse for everyone - especially those who have to count on the unstable and unsuitable to live through a tour.

As well, be advised - the majority of our military will never see front lines. Will never have to face enemy fire. The majority of our military will do their jobs just like any other civilian, far from combat. They will pack parachutes, clean and maintain equipment, do laundry, fix sewage leaks, upgrade computer software, listen to radio signals and analyze them, break encrypted communications, etc - all from thousands of miles removed from the actual war. War is not up close and personal any more for the majority of our military personnel. War is a video game for most of them - and, it is a paltry few that have to shoulder the reality of the atrocity that is war. Those few are put through the ringer over and over again. Particularly those very few who show they can withstand the rigors and requirements of being in a war zone - regardless of the toll it takes on them.

 

[yinepu]

The reason why is quite easy to understand once you take a look at the difference between basic training today versus even just 30 years ago. There have been such constraints placed on the people "in charge" during basic training that they might as well wipe your nose and pat you on the head as call it basic training. They aren't allowed to be nearly as tough and rough with you as they were years ago. Too many people whined about their poor, sweet child being traumatized - the ____? Seriously? Yes, they did...and, yes, they actually got results. So - people pretty much breeze through basic training now days (it was easier for me to go through basic training - even the 30 years ago that I went through - than it was for me to be at home and do my chores and fulfill my obligations there on the farm while going to school and working. I breezed through my training. I breezed through paratrooper training. I dug it up and ate it for breakfast, lunch and dinner. It was what I was good at. But - take someone who goes through the same thing I went through 30 years ago? They'd not even begin to think it was the same thing. It's night and day. And, what I went through to get in was even easier than what my father and his father had to go through. It's a joke, and only the weakest, most unstable and unsuitable are caught because of it. People wanted it to be easier for their children, and all they did was make it so much worse for everyone - especially those who have to count on the unstable and unsuitable to live through a tour.

As well, be advised - the majority of our military will never see front lines. Will never have to face enemy fire. The majority of our military will do their jobs just like any other civilian, far from combat. They will pack parachutes, clean and maintain equipment, do laundry, fix sewage leaks, upgrade computer software, listen to radio signals and analyze them, break encrypted communications, etc - all from thousands of miles removed from the actual war. War is not up close and personal any more for the majority of our military personnel. War is a video game for most of them - and, it is a paltry few that have to shoulder the reality of the atrocity that is war. Those few are put through the ringer over and over again. Particularly those very few who show they can withstand the rigors and requirements of being in a war zone - regardless of the toll it takes on them.

Basic training has gotten easier over the past year.. and from what I was told it will become even more lax with the emphasis being taken off of physical and mental fitness and geared more towards computer work (scenarios much like video games for operating drones and such).

My husband is one of the ones you mentioned in the bolded part... he is one of a handful who has to go out and mingle with the natives.. has to do road clearance and bomb removal. He's a combat engineer... and it's NOT the job he chose when he signed up.. it's the one they gave him. When I told him about this thread yesterday one of his replies was:
"7:45 am
not to mention...they don't let you choose your job"

Yesterday was one of the lucky days where he was able to log on to a computer and actually say hi to me... His internet in Afghanistan is poor at best and doesn't work every day. I also don't hear from him days or even weeks at a time when he is out on the road over there.
There are some guys who are lucky enough to have better internet.. or a "nice office job" where they can get in touch with their families every day and even do video calls.. And then there are the ones who are even luckier and can go home every night after work

 

[Kilsharion]

When I told him about this thread yesterday one of his replies was:
"7:45 am
not to mention...they don't let you choose your job"

Indeed. I chose DLI (Linguistics)...I was not given linguistics - as I think my posts have made a bit clear. The recruiters like to tell you that you can choose your job. The reality is - they put you where they want you - period. And, they don't tell you where that is until after training is complete (at least, they didn't when I was going through - maybe that's changed and they tell you during training) and you get your assignment for your technical training assignment (the place you go to learn your new job). You do not have the option to decline. And, leaving at that point is just as much considered AWOL at any other point.

By the way, folks, bailing in the middle of training without being processed out - or even after the second or third day? That's considered AWOL and carries just as heavy a penalty as those who bail without authorization after years of service. Once you sign on the bottom line, take the bus to the training camp and take that oath - that's it. Unless they process you out (as unfit or as time committed to having passed - generally four year cycles), you are stuck. It's the one job you can't just quit - even if you find you aren't suited to it after day one.

MASH was a funny show - and, Klinger was beyond the limits on his efforts to get out. But, the reality is kinda like that, to some extent. You are stuck until they say you aren't. And, while you're in, you do what they tell you to - period. You don't want to be a barracks manager? Tough. You don't want to be in combat engineering? Tough. You don't want to work satcom? Suck it. The recruiters bend the truth heavily. You can list your preferred job - but, the reality is - you do what they tell you. Period. Some fortunate few manage to actually get the job they requested; but, it's a rare thing.

 

[conny63malies]

Indeed. I chose DLI (Linguistics)...I was not given linguistics - as I think my posts have made a bit clear. The recruiters like to tell you that you can choose your job. The reality is - they put you where they want you - period. And, they don't tell you where that is until after training is complete (at least, they didn't when I was going through - maybe that's changed and they tell you during training) and you get your assignment for your technical training assignment (the place you go to learn your new job). You do not have the option to decline. And, leaving at that point is just as much considered AWOL at any other point.

By the way, folks, bailing in the middle of training without being processed out - or even after the second or third day? That's considered AWOL and carries just as heavy a penalty as those who bail without authorization after years of service. Once you sign on the bottom line, take the bus to the training camp and take that oath - that's it. Unless they process you out (as unfit or as time committed to having passed - generally four year cycles), you are stuck. It's the one job you can't just quit - even if you find you aren't suited to it after day one.

MASH was a funny show - and, Klinger was beyond the limits on his efforts to get out. But, the reality is kinda like that, to some extent. You are stuck until they say you aren't. And, while you're in, you do what they tell you to - period. You don't want to be a barracks manager? Tough. You don't want to be in combat engineering? Tough. You don't want to work satcom? Suck it. The recruiters bend the truth heavily. You can list your preferred job - but, the reality is - you do what they tell you. Period. Some fortunate few manage to actually get the job they requested; but, it's a rare thing.

Were you in the AF? They let you pick a field, not a job. As far as MOS only the Army lets you pick within what you qualified for. No being a MP with a score of 32 of course.

 

[yinepu]

Indeed. I chose DLI (Linguistics)...I was not given linguistics - as I think my posts have made a bit clear. The recruiters like to tell you that you can choose your job. The reality is - they put you where they want you - period. And, they don't tell you where that is until after training is complete (at least, they didn't when I was going through - maybe that's changed and they tell you during training) and you get your assignment for your technical training assignment (the place you go to learn your new job). You do not have the option to decline. And, leaving at that point is just as much considered AWOL at any other point.

By the way, folks, bailing in the middle of training without being processed out - or even after the second or third day? That's considered AWOL and carries just as heavy a penalty as those who bail without authorization after years of service. Once you sign on the bottom line, take the bus to the training camp and take that oath - that's it. Unless they process you out (as unfit or as time committed to having passed - generally four year cycles), you are stuck. It's the one job you can't just quit - even if you find you aren't suited to it after day one.

MASH was a funny show - and, Klinger was beyond the limits on his efforts to get out. But, the reality is kinda like that, to some extent. You are stuck until they say you aren't. And, while you're in, you do what they tell you to - period. You don't want to be a barracks manager? Tough. You don't want to be in combat engineering? Tough. You don't want to work satcom? Suck it. The recruiters bend the truth heavily. You can list your preferred job - but, the reality is - you do what they tell you. Period. Some fortunate few manage to actually get the job they requested; but, it's a rare thing.

My husband does like some of the perks of his job.. he has gotten to handle a lot of guns that most other people could only dream of shooting (and he's an excellent shot)

 

[conny63malies]

My husband does like some of the perks of his job.. he has gotten to handle a lot of guns that most other people could only dream of shooting (and he's an excellent shot)

Mine served as a sniper in the balkans with the BRO. After that he taught on the Easy Gap range in Fort Knox. Is best shoot ever was with R Lee Ermey. They were shooting a old hand crank Gatling gun on a night fire at Knob Creek.

 

[oldrooster]

Quote: Also considering the fact some people enlist after college/trade school or take vocational school classes in high school the military would be foolish to not to let those people enlist and have some sort of say in what field, if you are a RN why wouldn't they give you training in the "army" way of nursing rather than train someone from scratch? that does not mean they wouldn't use an RN as an orderly or some such position, if they didn't have a position available until later that is if the stupid Government had some common sense about such....

 

[Kilsharion]

Also considering the fact some people enlist after college/trade school or take vocational school classes in high school the military would be foolish to not to let those people enlist and have some sort of say in what field, if you are a RN why wouldn't they give you training in the "army" way of nursing rather than train someone from scratch? that does not mean they wouldn't use an RN as an orderly or some such position, if they didn't have a position available until later that is if the stupid Government had some common sense about such....

It happens all the time where people have skills and experience and are not placed where they are most suited. RNs and medical personnel are an exception to the rule. And, many college graduates have more of a likelihood of finding appropriate placement. However - college graduates do not enlist. They are officers, not enlisted personnel. The treatment between the two is significantly different. Officers do not go to standard basic, they go to a training camp that is specific to officers.

Just sayin'....our government is not always the brightest bulb in the box when it comes to thinking things through.

 

[hemet dennis]

When I went in the Navy in the 70's it was in my contract that I would get Submarine school and first home port would be West coast. So as long as I passed Sub school I would get Subs on the west coast. If they tried to send me to do something else then my contract would have been voided and I could have got out.

 

[MeatKing]

I just wish, that people who wanted out, didn't come to Canada expecting refugee status, when coming from a great country all ready.
I wish our government had rules in place, to get rid of people breaking the laws of their country. (I mean the laws of a democratic country)

Most Canadians, feels, the USA is our allies, our neighbors, and we would be lost without you's . Supporting these AWOL troops, just feels wrong