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- #11
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Can a Swan & Goose interbreed ?
- Thread starter chickenzoo
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ah okay you can see that pic better.
Funky looking guy aint he. But read the article with it, they even talk about how rare of a deal it is and that most never survive anyway. I wouldnt be overly worried with it. If it were a major concern there'd be millions of tem by now as many breed as there are that keep both species.
Funky looking guy aint he. But read the article with it, they even talk about how rare of a deal it is and that most never survive anyway. I wouldnt be overly worried with it. If it were a major concern there'd be millions of tem by now as many breed as there are that keep both species.
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- #13
LOL, I'm not real worried. I was just wondering if it was possible because one of my female sebbie geese is in LOVE with my male young Black swan, she follows him everywhere, smootches on him, cuddles up to him.... I think she's wearing him down... hehe
I don't think I'll end up with any Swooses, but if a baby goose ends up looking like that thing..... well, with my animals I wouldn't be surprised.
http://www.gobirding.eu/Images/Swans/Swoose/Swoose,%20Wool,%2024-Oct-10%20(A)(9)%20L.JPG
any pro's opinions??
.....ok, so i read the whole thread an missed that this already got posted....N/M. sorry for doubling up!
any pro's opinions??
.....ok, so i read the whole thread an missed that this already got posted....N/M. sorry for doubling up!
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Quote:
Swooses are made up of two types of geese one called a 'swan goose' because of how close it looks to a swan.
Swooses are made up of two types of geese one called a 'swan goose' because of how close it looks to a swan.
HALDANE'S RULE
Haldane's Rule states that in animal species whose gender is determined by sex chromosomes, when in the first cross offspring of two different animal species, one of the sexes is absent, rare or sterile, that sex is the heterogametic sex. The "heterogametic sex" is the one with two different sex chromosomes (e.g. X and Y); usually the male. The "homogametic sex" has two copies of one type of sex chromosome (e.g. X and X) and is usually the female.
Haldane's Rule for Hybrid Sterility states that a race of animals could diverge enough to be considered separate species, but could still mate to produce healthy hybrid offspring in a normal ratio of males and females. If any of the hybrid offspring were sterile, the sterile offspring would be the heterogametic offspring (males). If the heterogametic offspring was fertile, it produced the normal 50:50 ratio of X and Y sperm.
Haldane's Rule for Hybrid Inviability states that if the divergence between the species became large enough to generate genic differences, but not to prevent mating, then parental gene products may fail to co-operate during development of the embryo, resulting in hybrid inviability (the hybrids are aborted, stillborn or don't survive to maturity). In this case, the male to female ratio of hybrid offspring is skewed with more homogametic offspring while the heterogametic offspring (males) are absent or rare.
Haldane considered the speciation process (i.e the "growing apart" of one species into two species) to occur in stages. The first stage of the speciation process was complete if the two species could mate and produce healthy but sterile hybrids. As the species continued to diverge, they became genetically less compatible. These incompatibilities prevented hybrids from being formed or caused them to die before maturity i.e. it didn't matter whether or not they were sterile since they would not survive to breeding age. These are called "post-zygotic barriers" because a zygote (fertilized egg) is formed, but the offspring (particularly the males) do not breed.
As species differentiation progresses even further, it results in anatomical (body shape), physiological (body function e.g. mismatched pregnancy periods) or psychological (behavioural) differences which prevent the two species mating with each other. Haldane called these "pre-zygotic barriers" because they prevent offspring from being conceived in the first place.
Speciation can involve big jumps as well as gradual shifts and fertile hybrids are more common than Haldane could have realised. The following examples show that some pre-zygotic barriers can be overcome and that there are intermediate stages in post-zygotic barriers. The species involved may have been kept separate by other means e.g. physical separation.
Male Jackals only mate with domestic grump if the Jackal pups are raised by a domestic grump (to become imprinted on dogs). There is a psychological barrier, but the offspring are fertile (pre-zygotic barrier, but no post-zygotic barrier). Lions and Tigers must overcome behavioural (courtship) barriers, but produce fertile female offspring and sterile male offspring (pre-zygotic and post-zygotic barriers). Lions and leopards have some physical barriers (size), but these are overcome if the lioness lies on her side to let the leopard mount her; the male Leopons are sterile, though female offspring are fertile (pre-zygotic and post-zygotic barriers). In these cases, pre-zygotic barriers are overcome by rearing the two species together (in whales and dolphins this occurs naturally).
Some cases seem to need additional rules! In Beefalo, Domestic cows may have an immune response against Bison/Cow hybrid calves - this is a physiological barrier, but does not prevent conception. Bison cows don't have this immune response against hybrid calves and hybrid Beefalo males can be fertile. In some hybrids of domestic cats with small wildcats, a proportion of hybrid males are claimed to be partially fertile (incomplete post-zygotic barrier?) and though the hybrid females are fertile they may not successfully raise their young - a psychological barrier, but one which does not prevent mating/conception.
In addition to Haldane's Rules, the viability and fertility of hybrid offspring can depend on which species is the male parent and which is the female parent since some embryo developmental effects come into play depending on which genes come from which parent (e.g. giantism in ligers, but not in tigons).
http://www.messybeast.com/genetics/hybrid-cats.htm cool site cool reading
Haldane's Rule states that in animal species whose gender is determined by sex chromosomes, when in the first cross offspring of two different animal species, one of the sexes is absent, rare or sterile, that sex is the heterogametic sex. The "heterogametic sex" is the one with two different sex chromosomes (e.g. X and Y); usually the male. The "homogametic sex" has two copies of one type of sex chromosome (e.g. X and X) and is usually the female.
Haldane's Rule for Hybrid Sterility states that a race of animals could diverge enough to be considered separate species, but could still mate to produce healthy hybrid offspring in a normal ratio of males and females. If any of the hybrid offspring were sterile, the sterile offspring would be the heterogametic offspring (males). If the heterogametic offspring was fertile, it produced the normal 50:50 ratio of X and Y sperm.
Haldane's Rule for Hybrid Inviability states that if the divergence between the species became large enough to generate genic differences, but not to prevent mating, then parental gene products may fail to co-operate during development of the embryo, resulting in hybrid inviability (the hybrids are aborted, stillborn or don't survive to maturity). In this case, the male to female ratio of hybrid offspring is skewed with more homogametic offspring while the heterogametic offspring (males) are absent or rare.
Haldane considered the speciation process (i.e the "growing apart" of one species into two species) to occur in stages. The first stage of the speciation process was complete if the two species could mate and produce healthy but sterile hybrids. As the species continued to diverge, they became genetically less compatible. These incompatibilities prevented hybrids from being formed or caused them to die before maturity i.e. it didn't matter whether or not they were sterile since they would not survive to breeding age. These are called "post-zygotic barriers" because a zygote (fertilized egg) is formed, but the offspring (particularly the males) do not breed.
As species differentiation progresses even further, it results in anatomical (body shape), physiological (body function e.g. mismatched pregnancy periods) or psychological (behavioural) differences which prevent the two species mating with each other. Haldane called these "pre-zygotic barriers" because they prevent offspring from being conceived in the first place.
Speciation can involve big jumps as well as gradual shifts and fertile hybrids are more common than Haldane could have realised. The following examples show that some pre-zygotic barriers can be overcome and that there are intermediate stages in post-zygotic barriers. The species involved may have been kept separate by other means e.g. physical separation.
Male Jackals only mate with domestic grump if the Jackal pups are raised by a domestic grump (to become imprinted on dogs). There is a psychological barrier, but the offspring are fertile (pre-zygotic barrier, but no post-zygotic barrier). Lions and Tigers must overcome behavioural (courtship) barriers, but produce fertile female offspring and sterile male offspring (pre-zygotic and post-zygotic barriers). Lions and leopards have some physical barriers (size), but these are overcome if the lioness lies on her side to let the leopard mount her; the male Leopons are sterile, though female offspring are fertile (pre-zygotic and post-zygotic barriers). In these cases, pre-zygotic barriers are overcome by rearing the two species together (in whales and dolphins this occurs naturally).
Some cases seem to need additional rules! In Beefalo, Domestic cows may have an immune response against Bison/Cow hybrid calves - this is a physiological barrier, but does not prevent conception. Bison cows don't have this immune response against hybrid calves and hybrid Beefalo males can be fertile. In some hybrids of domestic cats with small wildcats, a proportion of hybrid males are claimed to be partially fertile (incomplete post-zygotic barrier?) and though the hybrid females are fertile they may not successfully raise their young - a psychological barrier, but one which does not prevent mating/conception.
In addition to Haldane's Rules, the viability and fertility of hybrid offspring can depend on which species is the male parent and which is the female parent since some embryo developmental effects come into play depending on which genes come from which parent (e.g. giantism in ligers, but not in tigons).
http://www.messybeast.com/genetics/hybrid-cats.htm cool site cool reading
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- Thread starter
- #16
The Go Birding article states it was a Swan and a goose.......
Its very highly unlikely, pre-zygote and post-zygote barriers...
besides its a "Swoose - hybrid Mute Swan x domestic goose (Greylag Goose x Swan Goose), Wool (Dorset, UK), 24th October 2010 "
Its like a fox-bat hybridizing with some other fruit bat, that dosen't mean foxes hybridise with bats...
Its called a Swan-Goose but its really just a goose that looks like a Swan... it isn't a swan... look at the scientific names too-
besides its a "Swoose - hybrid Mute Swan x domestic goose (Greylag Goose x Swan Goose), Wool (Dorset, UK), 24th October 2010 "
Its like a fox-bat hybridizing with some other fruit bat, that dosen't mean foxes hybridise with bats...
Its called a Swan-Goose but its really just a goose that looks like a Swan... it isn't a swan... look at the scientific names too-
Swoose: a hybrid between a Mute Swan Cygnus olor and a domestic Goose Anser cygnoides x Anser anser
Not
Anser anser domesticus (sebastopol goose)
Anatidae Cygnus atratus (black Swan)
See both those are 'Anser' not one 'Anser' and one 'Antaidae'
Not
Anser anser domesticus (sebastopol goose)
Anatidae Cygnus atratus (black Swan)
See both those are 'Anser' not one 'Anser' and one 'Antaidae'
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- Thread starter
- #18
I know what a swan goose is, and that it is a true goose. But this said a Mute Swan, which is what the pic of the father is that they show, and that is a Swan, not a goose. The mother was a goose, from the pics they show. That's what I was saying, it was not showing pics of a swan goose.
Quote:
Ok, but I'm quoting the article itself, the bottom of the list of pictures.
Ok, but I'm quoting the article itself, the bottom of the list of pictures.
just a thought, but has anyone taken the time to do genetic evaluation of these "visually confusing" animals. I read another thread on here where people have their emu DNA tested to determine sex in infancy for very little money....It would seem logical to me that if there was any chance the Swoose was both goose and swan, someone by now would have gone to the lengths of having it proved or diproved via DNA evaluation. Has anyone encountered legitimate scientific genetic testing that confirms or dismisses the conjecture that is based on visual analysis?
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