Cap and Trade Bill?? What the heck is it?

[horsejody]

Quote:
More industry will move overseas to avoid the excess cost. More jobs lost, etc.

 

[1acrefarm]

Quote:
More industry will move overseas to avoid the excess cost. More jobs lost, etc.

And those that move will be under way less regulation then they have here so pollution will increase big time over what it would have been if cap and trade never existed.

 

[WalkingWolf]

Quote:
Main Entry: 1steal
Pronunciation: \\ˈstēl\\
Function: verb
Inflected Form(s): stole \\ˈstōl\\; sto·len \\ˈstō-lən\\; steal·ing
Etymology: Middle English stelen, from Old English stelan; akin to Old High German stelan to steal
Date: before 12th century

intransitive verb 1 : to take the property of another wrongfully and especially as a habitual or regular practice
2 : to come or go secretly, unobtrusively, gradually, or unexpectedly
3 : to steal or attempt to steal a base

So, what you are saying is when the electric company installed new meters and suddenly everyone's bill shot up, and after finally being taken to court the electric company finally admitted that the new meters 'might not be calibrated correctly', that was theft?

And when the meter reader just guesses and that causes a bill to double, that is also theft? http://savannahnow.com/node/423120

Good, I'm glad you understand the definition of the word.

No that is called fraud. And there is far more fraud in Washington than anywhere else. But there is also fraud in just about every aspect of our lives. From religion to politics to your local butcher.

Do you have any evidence that this is widespread fraud or is it just a assumption, or guilt by association? And if so what would that make our current administration then?

 

[WalkingWolf]

Quote:
More industry will move overseas to avoid the excess cost. More jobs lost, etc.

And those that move will be under way less regulation then they have here so pollution will increase big time over what it would have been if cap and trade never existed.

The more stranglehold put on us is the more business that China gets, and much more pollution. It was never about pollution, but always power, and control.

 

[cmjust0]

Quote:
More industry will move overseas to avoid the excess cost. More jobs lost, etc.

The US, thus far, has been a little late in catching on to the notion that industry will always engage in a race to the bottom with regard to pollution and negative environmental impact so long as it's cheaper.. That's why there's so much dirty industry in developing economies like China and India -- they don't particularly care about the environment.

Here's the thing...

The United States basically has two choices here....we can either say "to heck with the environment," deregulate everything, and get down in the gutter and compete with China and India, or we can join the rest of the civilized world in the race to the top and their ongoing efforts to pressure these heavily-polluting developing economies into cleaning up their acts, too..

Which do you prefer?

Gotta decide, though.. Right now, we're still allowed to pollute enough that we can't speak to China nor India with any credibility, yet we're regulated just enough that China's and India's ability to dump their trash wherever they want puts them at a clear competitive advantage..

So, which is it?

Personally, I say we clean up our act and then force China and India to do the same so it's not so doggone attractive for industry to go their instead of clean up their acts, and that's speaking solely from an economic/jobs standpoint.

 

[jafo]

Quote:

Not all of us, it just depends on how hard you really want the truth.

 

[cmjust0]

Quote:
More industry will move overseas to avoid the excess cost. More jobs lost, etc.

And those that move will be under way less regulation then they have here so pollution will increase big time over what it would have been if cap and trade never existed.

The rest of the Western world is currently engaged in efforts to try to pressure China and India into cleaning up their acts...

Make no mistake -- the US's inaction is a big stumbling block in that effort.

 

[Wifezilla]

The United States basically has two choices here....we can either say "to heck with the environment," deregulate everything, and get down in the gutter and compete with China and India, or we can join the rest of the civilized world in the race to the top and their ongoing efforts to pressure these heavily-polluting developing economies into cleaning up their acts, too..

Which do you prefer?

Sorry. It is not a 2 option question. Not even close.

This is what is called a "straw man" argument.​

 

[1acrefarm]

Quote:
And those that move will be under way less regulation then they have here so pollution will increase big time over what it would have been if cap and trade never existed.

The rest of the Western world is currently engaged in efforts to try to pressure China and India into cleaning up their acts...

Make no mistake -- the US's inaction is a big stumbling block in that effort.

We or no other nation can force China to do anything. They have more troops then we have people not to mention we owe them more money than we can ever pay back. We the citizens have more power against china than the government. We stop buying chinese junk then they will not be polluting as much.

 

[GrayDragon]

Quote:
So that makes it okay?

Do you have any evidence that this is widespread fraud or is it just a assumption, or guilt by association?

Thus far I have provided more evidence for my claims than you have for yours.

And if so what would that make our current administration then?

Not sure what it makes the current administration, but it does make those decrying the current administration but lauding corporations rather hypocritical.

What I'm seeing from your attitude is that it's wrong for the government to have shady practices, but to be expected from corporations.

Tell me, why exactly should we be willing to accept this behavior from either?

We had a free market in the US once. We also had child labor, people being poisoned by their workplace, being crippled on the job and tossed out on their butts, product labels that lied about their contents, etc...

Do you really want that?

Not everything the government does is bad. Not everything a corporation does is in the best interests of the consumer. Denying either of these facts is pure self-delusion.​