Cap and Trade Bill?? What the heck is it?

[ivan3]

WalkingWolf wrote: The more stranglehold put on us is the more business that China gets, and much more pollution. It was never about pollution, but always power, and control.

I don't know if it is so much about power and control than it is about sloth and greed (and we all of us get to take a bite of that sandwich). We know that we are dependent on foreign sources of energy, but we glide along with ease until the price of a barrel jumps to $140. We love our cheap Chinese stuff and studying seems too much an effort though the ability to educate oneself via the web (yeah, MIT courses online to bone up on instead of plopping down in front of a Korean Flat Screen so's to catch up on celebrities and dead white girls) makes me green with envy I didn't have this tool when I was a punk.

The Chinese, having rocketed right through the industrial revolution in less than two generations (can remember reading through the ads in the business section of the Washington Post back in `76 touting Chinese textiles - and what happened to our textile industry as a result five years later?), are moving on rapidly.

They continue to plan strategically and are blowing right past us on our dime. They will be `greener' within another generation than we will be (unless we quit navel gazing and get on the stick):

Chinese reactor program outlook:

From: http://www.hindawi.com/journals/stni/2009/573026.html

I don't blame the Chinese for eating our lunch. It is not like we didn't hand it to them voluntarily and then ask for a tip (buy our debt) that we have to pay them interest on.​

 

[1acrefarm]

Quote:
Because a lot of companies simply aren't.

Wrong. Every company I ever worked for was concerned with utility bills. To say a corporation will not do what it feasibly can to reduce their costs is just plain baloney. As a industrial maintenance worker one of my jobs was to come up with ways to save energy in the factory. I have spent weeks hunting air leaks no matter how small and repairing them because air leaks made the compressors run more thereby raising electrical rates. I regularly had to do inspections and report my findings on what may be causing energy wastage. Was that company concerned with the environment? Heck no wasted energy costs.

 

[horsejody]

Quote:
I'm very familiar with what a strawman argument is, and I don't believe I presented a strawman argument.

You're certainly entitled to your opinion, though, as I personally believe everyone has every right to be wrong.

You are absolutely right. Everybody has the right to an opinion and the right to be wrong, even you.

 

[cmjust0]

Quote:
Every company I've ever worked for has been concerned about their costs, period. That's what Cap & Trade is all about -- making it more costly to pollute, rather than less costly!

So, as a guy who spent weeks looking for teeny tiny airleaks to make their equipment more efficient, what do you think would happen in a company that was under a carbon cap and facing the threat of having to spend money on more carbon credits??

Would they simply buy the credits and pass the cost on to the consumer as the utilities claim they will in their scary tv commercials, or would they send someone out to look for carbon leaks?

Folks...it's a no-brainer.

 

[cmjust0]

Quote:
Not a right I exercise often, but one I cherish nonetheless.

 

[Wifezilla]

What amazes me is the fact that cap & trade is currently being used in other countries....it DOESN'T WORK...yet somehow magically it is supposed to perform miracles in the US.

Uuuuhhhh...OK!

 

[GrayDragon]

Quote:
I worked for a furniture store a couple years back.

The owner had occasion to purchase a new company refrigerator.

Instead of paying $35 more for the Energy Star model, he bought the non-energy-star rated LG model cause it was 'cheaper'. Showing him that the energy savings would cover the difference in under a couple months just went in one ear, and out the other. It was all about the immediate savings, not any long-term thinking.

He was not a unique individual.

So, want to rethink your statement?

 

[GrayDragon]

To expound upon the aforementioned furniture store owner, he also fired me for having a baby. Worked me right up until my due date, nodded as I made arrangements to be available to work from home as needed, then fired me the day my maternity leave started. Then told the unemployment office that I'd 'quit'.

Thank goodness we don't have a 'free market' and there were labor laws in place to protect me, as golly gee, a company didn't have my best interests at heart.


I should also add that even though on the books he'd fired me, the day after I got home from the hospital he requested a do a small project for him. I did, went to email it to him and discovered my company email no longer worked. That was how I'd learned I'd been fired.

 

[1acrefarm]

Quote:
I worked for a furniture store a couple years back.

The owner had occasion to purchase a new company refrigerator.

Instead of paying $35 more for the Energy Star model, he bought the non-energy-star rated LG model cause it was 'cheaper'. Showing him that the energy savings would cover the difference in under a couple months just went in one ear, and out the other. It was all about the immediate savings, not any long-term thinking.

He was not a unique individual.

So, want to rethink your statement?

Then your boss was an idiot.

 

[1acrefarm]

Quote:
Every company I've ever worked for has been concerned about their costs, period. That's what Cap & Trade is all about -- making it more costly to pollute, rather than less costly!

So, as a guy who spent weeks looking for teeny tiny airleaks to make their equipment more efficient, what do you think would happen in a company that was under a carbon cap and facing the threat of having to spend money on more carbon credits??

Would they simply buy the credits and pass the cost on to the consumer as the utilities claim they will in their scary tv commercials, or would they send someone out to look for carbon leaks?

Folks...it's a no-brainer.

They already have facilities they can move to acquired overseas in case cap and trade is implemented.