Cap and Trade Bill?? What the heck is it?

[horsejody]

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You do realize that Cap & Trade is effectively a voluntary tax, right? If a corporation chooses to exceed their cap, they pay the tax, whereas they can avoid the tax by being more environmentally responsible. Those companie that choose to be more environmentally responsible should actually make money off Cap & Trade....

Hey, you might even think of Cap & Trade as a tax cut for green companies.. Does that make it more appealing?

That would only work if you could ban them from taking the industry overseas so they can avoid the expensive upgrades.

 

[Boyd]

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just in case you wanted to see where I started out this afternoon

 

[cmjust0]

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Free to murder? Free to steal?

Of course not...we're a nation of laws, by design. You can do whatever you want, so long as SOCIETY hasn't deemed it harmful to society. The beauty of our system -- or, at least, the original idea, regardless of how perverted it may have become in your eyes -- is that our society ensures it's own freedom from control by controlling itself.

Self control is the only mechanism by which any entity can ever hope to avoid being controlled by something or someone else.

Think about it.

 

[cmjust0]

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Not ban, discourage...and that's what I've been saying all along!

Right now, industry is encouraged to go overseas because, among other things, labor is cheaper and because environmental controls are all but non-existant.

If the US continues to pollute as we are today, we neither have the credibility to demand that developing nations clean up their acts, nor are we in a position to compete with their non-regulation..

What that means, in my opinion, is that we can either completely deregulate in order to compete with the non-regulated, or we can join the rest of the civilized world and hold ourselves to a higher standard and lend ourselves a bit of credibility in the fight to hold developing nations to a higher standard as well..

In other words...we either drop to their level or pressure them to come up to ours.

You choose.

 

[cmjust0]

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just in case you wanted to see where I started out this afternoon

Gotcha..

 

[jafo]

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I knew we had something in common Boyd. Don't forget the wine, lamp oil, MRE's We can meat as well. On the other quest yer after, G DUB'YA ( actually one of his girls) bought 97 thousand acres in So America. Argentina I think it was. Guess who his neighbor is,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,Putin.

 

[Boyd]

Quote:
just in case you wanted to see where I started out this afternoon

Gotcha..

I should have a siggy line line Saddina's... her's goes something like this.....

Silly at times, do not take serious in large doses or something like that

 

[horsejody]

Quote:
Free to murder? Free to steal?

Of course not...we're a nation of laws, by design. You can do whatever you want, so long as SOCIETY hasn't deemed it harmful to society. The beauty of our system -- or, at least, the original idea, regardless of how perverted it may have become in your eyes -- is that our society ensures it's own freedom from control by controlling itself.

Self control is the only mechanism by which any entity can ever hope to avoid being controlled by something or someone else.

Think about it.

I think I hear that old strawman argument again. Now you are saying that because it is wrong to murder, cap and trade should be accepted. Hmmmm. NO MORE TAXES! LESS GOVERNMENT! Everybody knows that the right to swing your fist stops at the end of somebody else's nose. Well, all of these taxes are hitting the public in the nose. Costs will be higher, and jobs will be fewer. Humans are not capable of obtaining utopia. We certainly can't be taxed into it.

 

[Boyd]

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I knew we had something in common Boyd. Don't forget the wine, lamp oil, MRE's We can meat as well. On the other quest yer after, G DUB'YA ( actually one of his girls) bought 97 thousand acres in So America. Argentina I think it was. Guess who his neighbor is,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,Putin.

Lol I didn't know that, but knowing that Argentina was a WWII hideout for wanted war criminals makes those two names interesting

I'm thinking something not quite so far south though... If I go south america, I'm going to Brazil, but other than that Me thinks Costa Rica

 

[GrayDragon]

Basically, here is the simple truth of the matter:


You put someone in a position of power, they will abuse it.

This is true whether they be CEO or Governor.

I want sensible government regulation of corporations and sensible civilian oversight of government agencies.

Is that really too much to ask?