Concrete Sand In Run?

[CAJUN_CHICK]

Good Morning All,

Our chicks are still in the broader but getting big fast. Our coop and run is still a work in progress. I am wanted to use a sand bottom in my run. I have read many things about using construction sand, unfortunately I cannot find any. All I seem to have around here is concrete sand is that usable?

 

[aart]

We are either putting down gravel or stepping stones and gravel. Then covering with the sand. I was wondering if the concrete sand could be used like a poop litter instead of pine shavings ect.

The sand will settle down into the gravel, may totally disappear.
Sand doesn't work like shavings.
Shavings, or better yet wood chippings in run, will dry out poops and the carbon in the wood will help break the poops down.
Tho you may be able to sift the poops out of sand, you'll never get it all and eventually the sand and/or gravel will become saturated with pulverized poops and stink when the least bit damp.

 

[aart]

I’ve been using sand in my coops for two years now and I like it ! I clean everyday! However I’m open to hear other options I would like to try the deep litter method but I’m not sure it would be good where I live ? My dilemma is I’m in the woods so when we have summers with a lot of rain and humidity it’s a nightmare! Being shaded nothing dries out with humidity everything is moist ! I have mold issues not in coop but on ground , stumps etc the straw in my nest boxes are moist it’s very difficult so sand stays dry! If anyone can suggest a better way I’m open for other options! Thanks

Sand might be the way to go for you...mold doesn't grow well on sand and won't absorb humidity like dry plant matter does.

 

[GodofPecking]

it's perfect.

cement is a powder made from limestone, it's one item.
mortar is cement and some sand. It's two things together.
concrete is cement, sand and stones. It's three things together.

The kind of sand you use in this situation will not have any great difference on the outcome. If you wash the sand a bit, by putting it in water and spraying the end of the hose into the water to stir it up you'll see if it is dirty sand by the water getting cloudy. If the water is clear or becomes clear with the swirling, then the sand is just fine. Small amounts of dirt don't matter.

What DOES matter a million times more is reinforcement for the concrete floor. If you don't put any mesh into it, it will crack and the cracks open up over time.

You can get reinforcement bar called 'rebar', about as thick as a pencil and holes about the length of a pencil on each side which you put into the concrete and never have to worry about cracking ever. You put a few barrow loads or a dozen shovels full of wet concrete on the floor and when you're about half the thickness you want, you place the mesh onto it. The idea is that it will be in the middle of the concrete by the time it's all done. Cut whatever mesh you use so that it doesn't reach all the way to the edges of the concrete. You want at least an inch or better two inches of concrete all around the edges of the mesh so that scratching the concrete can't expose the mesh.

You can use a few layers of chickenwire as your mesh if you have nothing else. Fencing wire is good too. avoid heavily rusted wire or iron or steel, but a tiny bit is ok, like a new piece left out in the rain has a 'little bit' of rust after a week, not a corner is rusted away 'little bit'.

 

[GodofPecking]

You'll need good eaves ( eaves are where the roof is wider and longer than it needs to be, to keep rain off the walls as well ) on that coop, as you're using radiata pine, rather than hardwood. Radiata pine has to be kept dry, or it won't last as long. The blocks will help keep it dry which is important for this pine too, but if termites live where you are, they can sneak up between the blocks where chooks can't get them. if you do a concrete floor, I recommend not using the blocks at all, instead use a continuous concrete slab so there are no cracks for critters.

 

[Peepsi]

Exactly....if it's sifted with a very fine mesh.

I don't...I think most folks who 'like' it have only used it for a few weeks rather than for a year or more.

I'm 4 months into my experimental sand in both coop and run. I can already see that, although I strove to get the coarsest sand possible, it still has more fines (dust) in it than I would like. My coop and run have become very dusty. I pick up poop every day. I only have four chickens, but the amount of poop they create is staggering....more than I thought. The entire coop and run gets full of poop each day, despite each chicken having 32 sq ft in a coop/run combo that's 128 sq ft total, so I have to pick up poop each day. Sitting through the sand to pick up poop kicks up poop-particle-filled dust, no matter how careful I am.

Once my experimental year is up, I might have to invite @aart to tell me "I told you so," but until then, we'll see!

I can tell you that sand in entire run will NOT work in these situations:
1. The run, or any portion thereof, is not fully covered or is allowed to become wet
2. Your run has less than 30 sq ft per chicken.
3. You have asthma or are immune-compromised.
4. You cannot find sand that is mostly coarse (1 mm particles or larger), and your sand is full of fines/dust.

Hope this helps!

 

[CAJUN_CHICK]

it's perfect.

cement is a powder made from limestone, it's one item.
mortar is cement and some sand. It's two things together.
concrete is cement, sand and stones. It's three things together.

The kind of sand you use in this situation will not have any great difference on the outcome. If you wash the sand a bit, by putting it in water and spraying the end of the hose into the water to stir it up you'll see if it is dirty sand by the water getting cloudy. If the water is clear or becomes clear with the swirling, then the sand is just fine. Small amounts of dirt don't matter.

What DOES matter a million times more is reinforcement for the concrete floor. If you don't put any mesh into it, it will crack and the cracks open up over time.

You can get reinforcement bar called 'rebar', about as thick as a pencil and holes about the length of a pencil on each side which you put into the concrete and never have to worry about cracking ever. You put a few barrow loads or a dozen shovels full of wet concrete on the floor and when you're about half the thickness you want, you place the mesh onto it. The idea is that it will be in the middle of the concrete by the time it's all done. Cut whatever mesh you use so that it doesn't reach all the way to the edges of the concrete. You want at least an inch or better two inches of concrete all around the edges of the mesh so that scratching the concrete can't expose the mesh.

You can use a few layers of chickenwire as your mesh if you have nothing else. Fencing wire is good too. avoid heavily rusted wire or iron or steel, but a tiny bit is ok, like a new piece left out in the rain has a 'little bit' of rust after a week, not a corner is rusted away 'little bit'.

I should have been a bit more specific. We are either putting down gravel or stepping stones and gravel. Then covering with the sand. I was wondering if the concrete sand could be used like a poop litter instead of pine shavings ect.

 

[CAJUN_CHICK]

You'll need good eaves ( eaves are where the roof is wider and longer than it needs to be, to keep rain off the walls as well ) on that coop, as you're using radiata pine, rather than hardwood. Radiata pine has to be kept dry, or it won't last as long. The blocks will help keep it dry which is important for this pine too, but if termites live where you are, they can sneak up between the blocks where chooks can't get them. if you do a concrete floor, I recommend not using the blocks at all, instead use a continuous concrete slab so there are no cracks for critters.

Thank you, yes it will have eaves. Not sure about the wood that's all the hubby, we will be using a water sealer. Those blocks are filled with cement no cracks.

 

[GodofPecking]

Yes, you can put any sand in on the floor as poop litter, that would work well.

Good to hear about the eaves. The blocks are filled I saw that, but you can't glue them together into a single piece, they are still single bricks and so they have a space between each brick is what I mean by a crack, I use the wrong words. 'Between the bricks" is more appropriate...

 

[Mama fluff]

I've also read about using sand in the run, not for the poop board, it had to be about 6 inches thick if I recall correctly.

Actually I use the sand inside my coops and poop board with pdz not in the run I use wood chips in run ! I’m in the woods so the wood is just a more natural element for me ! I thought about sand in run but last two years it’s been so wet and it’s also shady from trees I thought it would just be mucky but the sand works well in coop 6-8 inches deep on wood floor stays nice and dry and they like to dust bath in it also ! Easy to clean just use kitty scoop !