Coop treated with DE - safe for week old baby chick?!

Discussion in 'Emergencies / Diseases / Injuries and Cures' started by ChickenMama308, Mar 20, 2018.

  1. ChickenMama308

    ChickenMama308 Chirping

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    Hi everyone! It's been a crazy week trying to get rid of mites, lice, and cocci in everyone / everything while caring for a newborn chick who was initially struggling from cocci. I have 3 hens in our large coop and now we have this one baby chick. 3 days ago I removed and discarded all bedding, nesting boxes etc. and went to town with dusting the coop, nesting boxes, roosts etc. with DE for the mites. I had all the chickens stay in my house with me for the past three days...! I treated the 3 adult hens today with ivermectin pour on today, and everyone has been drinking corid water. I put mama hen and baby back in the coop but now I'm a little nervous if this will be ok for the baby, because mom is going crazy kicking up all new bedding and inevitably making DE dust go everywhere I'm sure. I saw the baby kicking at her nose profusely and am hoping this isn't because of the DE but know it very well could be. What is everyone's thoughts on this and / or experience? I definitely don't want to compromise the babies health but I'm not sure what else to do... I'm nervous about the mites returning and going after her.

    Thank you!
     
  2. 21hens-incharge

    21hens-incharge Addict

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  3. ChickenMama308

    ChickenMama308 Chirping

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    I believed that if I used DE it would kill all mites on contact, and that I'd need to do another DE sweep in about a week to clear out all the newly hatched chicks. I bought permethrin but I'd prefer to use just DE if it can work... has anyone else been successful in using DE on an active mite infestation? It doesn't seem like a super bad infestation but hard to say, I haven't gone out to look at the activity during the night yet.
     
  4. Alaskan

    Alaskan The Frosted Flake

    DE will irritate lungs, but I don't see how it could hurt mites or lice ... those are hard bodied insects. .. exoskeletons. :confused:

    permethrin works well... I like the spray MUCH better than the dusts and powders specifically because with the spray you spray it where you want it... tada... done!

    Powders are... well.... Powders and are dusty and easily inhaled.
     
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  5. sylviethecochin

    sylviethecochin Free Ranging

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    Unfortunately, studies have shown that while DE might be effective at controlling a low mite population by making it slightly harder for them to live, it definitely does nothing for anything approaching an infestation. [EDT: and it certainly doesn't kill on contact] It used to get a lot of hype for being organic (It's not. I'm no chemist, but I know that Organic = carbon-based*) but then they found out that it can irritate the lungs. Yes, even the food-grade stuff.

    Further, there was a lot of hype about "since it's not chemical, mites can't evolve to defend themselves against it." Balderdash. The ones with thicker exoskeletons survive, breed, and move on with their lives while the weak perish, resulting in a stronger population of mites, same as anything that doesn't completely eradicate the population first go.

    *bit of a chemistry joke. It is organic, by a certain definition of organic. But as we cynics complained in chem class, "so's cyanide!"
     
  6. EggSighted4Life

    EggSighted4Life Free Ranging

    I guess you may realize that isn't true now?

    IMHO DE is NOT safe for anyone especially my chickens. Yep I've seen the dust cloud arise every time they scratch the ground and as they shake out after dirt bathing. Now you can see it too and decided for yourself in the future.... Aside fro m it being strip mined.

    Permethrin is safe, affordable, effective (INSTANTLY & with RESIDUAL), easy to use, and labeled for use in chickens with NO withdrawal time for eggs.

    But you used Ivermectin instead?! :eek: That isn't even approved for use in poultry and is a serious cattle dewormer. The ONLY type of mites it should be used for are scaly leg mites and depluming mite. Both of which are microscopic, systemic feeders making the permethrin less effective.

    Listen, I'm sorry... new borns do NOT struggle with cocci. I believe it takes at least 4-6 days for symptoms to present.

    Where does the logic come in... that I bought this which is labeled FOR the animals but I think I will use this over kill poison and this over rated dusty health hazard to try... sorry, I'm just coming off like a jerk now. :oops: :smack I just don't get it. :confused:

    Corid will help slow the growth of coccidia which are in every single chicken poo. It works by blocking thiamine to starve them out. So it's important not to supplement vitamins during this time and make sure no other drinking sources are available.

    Seriously, I'm here to support you and didn't mean to come off like a jerk back there expressing myself. Please don't take it personal or be offended! We all do our best until we learn something different. Good job finding the mites! :highfive:

    You must be one crazy chicken lady... having 3 hens inside for 3 days! :p
     
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  7. ChickenMama308

    ChickenMama308 Chirping

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    Supposedly DE cuts through the exoskeleton on the bugs and dehydrates them to death. I haven't done a close inspection for mites since dusting but I saw a bunch of dead larger bugs and roaches. Thanks for the thought of the permethrin spray vs powder... we shall see!
     
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  8. ChickenMama308

    ChickenMama308 Chirping

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    They do have leg mites it seems, unfortunately. I heard that mites can stress the newborn chicks enough to make any contact with cocci more deadly / enhanced than if there were no mites, they showed all the symptoms except for bloody stool (that I ever saw anyways). They got better after giving them corid. No need to judge my logic, I'm just looking for suggestions moving forward - I'm doing my best over here, trust me! Crazy chicken lady for sure... just an fyi - chickens make for the messiest roommates! Still though, you've gotta love them :)

    I had someone recommend to me to dip my chickens into a big container of water full of different essential oils etc. and massage into their feathers / skin to kill the bugs on their body.. and to use permethrin spray all around the yard. This may be my next move, will keep you all posted.
     
    sylviethecochin likes this.
  9. EggSighted4Life

    EggSighted4Life Free Ranging

    Oil floats on top of water. :confused: I'm guessing they mean the oil MUST cover completely to suffocate said parasites... the way we used to use mayonnaise to treat our head lice as kids (it had to stay on overnight. :sick The essential oils... basically just smell good, and ANY oil would work... I would think. Seems like the container of water would be a messy nightmare though. I personally would consider using one of those oil pump sprayers that's supposed to mimic the "pam" stuff, but with whatever oil you chose. Anybody who has ever dipped a chicken in water (IE processing to pluck feathers) KNOWS things don't just easily go to the base of the feathers/skin... the reason why it takes several moments of dunking and swishing to get it right for plucking. Just going through the thought of my over thinking brain that tries to figure out the core of EVERY possibility. :caf

    Yes, it makes sense that having mites, could cause more risk from cocci... or anything else really. I don't think it will make it appear sooner than it's standard life cycle though... just *possibly* hit harder once symptoms do present. And even then some chicks will still have stronger immune systems than others. Some will fight off the mites better from the very get go, oddly enough.

    Some people do mistake a few dry raised scales on the legs with mites. In stead of realizing that they are skin that does get dry, age, and fall off to be replaced. My vet said it should look like keratin growth coming out from under the scales. And those mites are microscopic so will NEVER be seen by the naked eye, just their signs of them. Yes leg mites CAN be treated by suffocation... but since you already did the Ivomec, I think that should take care of them. On the babies legs you might rub vaseline, crisco, or other thick/safe to use product. Not sure if the oil will be think enough to create the desired effect... but, ALSO here to learn! ;)

    Please note... DE is rendered ineffective when wet... and oil will make whatever is still on their skin wet. I don't know if the micro cutting shards get their sharp edges back once they dry again or not. For me, I skip the micro cuts... if it works against bugs, it works on my skin too and that of my chooks in their airways when inhaled. I don't my birds using energy to heal microcuts day in and day out. Hopefully seeing the fun your hen was having in the dust and respiratory response of the chick will allow you to reconsider as a future NON option. Not saying it doesn't work (though I think it does very limited)... just that there are POSSIBLY better ways. Also, it will work better in dryer environment than mine... we often have 85% humidity and things don't "dehydrate" that fast in humid areas.

    I'm not sure how effective spraying the yard with permethrin may or may not be depending on the pest and your weather. You may be hoping to catch an egg that fell off and is hatching or something since these kind live ON the bird? Verses the red mites I have seen under wood in my yard. I do use it in my coop a little if I need to treat the birds.... which by the way... means you have wildlife not that you are a terrible keeper. :)

    Not sure WHAT symptoms your babes were displaying that got better after the Corid... But for your informational purposes... ONLY 1 of the 9 (or 11 depending on source) of strains of cocci will present as blood in the stool. And even then not every single poo will be bloody even from the bird that just made a bloody poo in front of you. And not every bird will display ALL of the symptoms of an illness, which is sometimes what makes it so hard for us to discern what is really going on. So we make out best decision we can according to what we see. Especially in chickens, SOO many things can present very similar to so many others making it yet even harder for us. :barnie So if you feel like you should treat for something even though you don't see ALL the symptoms... you may well be right!

    It's OK to be a crazy chicken lady... you're in good company! :p I think it's awesome when peeps are willing to go the extra mile or twenty when needed for their pets. :thumbsup

    Skip the suggestions of do this and do that like an oil water bath. If your birds are going top be exposed to the permethrin anyways... just use it ON the birds and kill the bugs instantly... I've seen it work in person! Since I use the spray... it's as simple as a small squirt right below the vent, in each wing pit, and to the nape of the neck (since head lice don't leave the head). All with feathers parted and squirt bottle close to the skin. It's actually waterproof once it dries and continues to work for at least three weeks on many things to catch new hatching bugs. I haven't used the powder because (one I didn't know it existed) the ease of spray that doesn't shake out for me or them to breath in the poison has been awesome. I have sprayed myself many times though, so not saying I get zero exposure. So far me nor any of my animals have had a reaction to it since I started using it to combat mosquitoes on my goats and dogs last year or the year before.

    If you SAW bugs... they weren't scaly leg mites.

    I'm sure your week old chick will recover just fine from it's dust storm the other day.... Pics welcome! ;)
     

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