Cream Legbar Working Group: Standard of Perfection

[lonnyandrinda]

So what do we do if all we have are dark males? Get and hatch out and try again? So disheartening...

Rinda

 

[GaryDean26]

Inspiring to see these earlier writings! Think this will solidify color discussions if the aim is a cream legbar, rather than the gold and red of many of ours.

Yep...This is why I got Cream Legbars. You just can't find information like this from the founders of 99% of the breeds out there.

 

[KPenley]

So what do we do if all we have are dark males? Get and hatch out and try again? So disheartening...

Rinda

It is a bit disheartening...but at the same time it is an exciting adventure for all of us daring an patient enough to make it happen. I'm already noticing a lightening of chicks coming out of GFF this year, versus chicks that are offspring of the juveniles sold last year. I think they've made some major culls in the right direction. There are other breeders who have worked hard these last two years too. If you can hatch, find, or create a light cockeral, you will eventually get light males.

 

[nicalandia]

So what do we do if all we have are dark males? Get and hatch out and try again? So disheartening...

Rinda

get males from breeders hatching Light males, I have heard GFF is producing more light males now, order some, tell them you want the light males

 

[nicalandia]

It is a bit disheartening...but at the same time it is an exciting adventure for all of us daring an patient enough to make it happen. .

you guys have the oportunity to have the most autosexable breed on your hands, I say you are lucky to be at this state, because in the future you could say that you worked on creating the American Crested Cream Legbar, about the most autosexing breed ever....

 

[nicalandia]

from the Rhodebar thread
https://www.backyardchickens.com/t/582327/the-rhodebar-thread/350

this is the state of the Rhodebar chicks at this stage

Quote:

now the Dark male with headspot and dark hens with a headspots..

She is the one at the bottom right, can't see her head well in this picture but the spot was about like the male top center.

now take a good look at both breeds and honestly tell me which one is the better autosexing? some American Creasted Cream Legbar owners are dealing with this issue, I´m trying to help but some refuse to hear me out

 

[GaryDean26]

Quote:

Shape: Male

Comb: Single; large, straight and erect, deeply and evenly serrated with five to seven spikes, extending well over the back of the head, without touching the line of the head, free from side spikes or thumb-marks. - [GaryDean26] Yes the GFF lines have LARGE combs. One of my cockerels only has four points. See Photos below.

Cockerel #1 - Large straight comb.


Cockerel #2 - Large Comb. Only Four Points. Erect, but not very straight.


Beak: Stout, point clear of the front of the comb, slightly curved.
[GaryDean26] Redchicken9's cockerel looks good in this area. Cockerel #1 & #2 both have combs that are too large and extending in front of the beak.

Face: Smooth (or finely textured, mine with small feathers)?
[GaryDean26] I understand a Smooth Face to mean notbeard, muffs, tuffs, etc. The GFF lines appear to have not issues in this area

Eyes: Large, bright, and prominent. Round in appearance.
[GaryDean26] There doesn't seem to be any issued here in the GFF lines either. Don't we need to define the eye color. I was thinking that the standard was for Orange or Red eyes. Elverything I have been seeing are orange eyes.

Wattles: Moderately long, uniform in size, well-rounded, skin soft.
[GaryDean26] What is the Deffinition on Moderately? I haven't seen any chicken with waddles much longer than the three cockerels for comparison here.

Ear-lobes: Well-developed, hanging about one third the length of the waddles, pendent, smooth and free from folds, equally matched in size and shape.[GaryDean26] What is the deffinition on moderately? Cockerel #1 & #2 are both photos at about 32 week old. I am guessing Redchicken9's cockerel is photoed at aroung 24 weeks old. Hers shows about 1/3 the length of the Waddles, but these grow quite a bit from 25-35 weeks.

Head: Medium in length, symmetrical, well balanced, and of fine quality.
[GaryDean26] I am not really sure what all that means. I am guessing we are okay in this area. Anyone else car to comment?

Neck: Long and well covered with hackle feathers.
[GaryDean26] Cockerel #1 seems to have along neck, and Cockerel #2 a short neck (I may just be the way he is postioned in the photos, see below)

Back: Moderately broad at the shoulders, narrowing slightly toward the tail, long in length, with an even slope to the tail. Saddle feathers: Abundant, moderately long and sweeping to the tail.
[GaryDean26] It would seem that this is something that will have to be watched since we are seeing a lot of varriation in shape and size in the GFF lines. I think that Cockerel #1 is a good example of broad shoulders (see photo above). We are seeing a lot of short backs though as compared to clasical photos (see below)

Classical Photo from 1951 Autosexing Poultry Society Anual


Cockerel #1 (Left) / Cockerel #2 (Right) / Cockerel #3 (Right Back)
Tail: Moderately full, carried at an angle of forty-five degrees above horizontal. Sickles: relatively longer than main tail, and well curved.

[GaryDean26] Cockerel #1 has the 90 deg angle (as does #3 and Redchicken9's cockerel). Cockerel #2 is a good example as was the one in post #195 by FMP.


Note: My 'A' hen had a really long tail and her offspring out of cockerel #1 at 4 months old have super long tails. It seems that with the length, angle, etc. the tail is something will will have to keep an eye on in the GFF bloodlines.
Wings: Large and carried close to the body without dropping.

[GaryDean26] I think there has been some discussion on this already, but Cockerel #1 & #2 show to have wing tips dropping below the body in their profile photos while Redchicken9 and #3 don't. Again this could be the way they are standing, but what is correct here? should the wing tips be up high enough so that they don't show below the body line?

Breast: Prominent, well-developed, carried forward and upright.
[GaryDean26] What is a prominent brest? I am seeing very upright birds with out much of a brest in the profile photos. The classic photos are quite different. Cockerel #3 is the closest to a prominant brest I have seen. What are we really looking for in this regaurd?

Cockerel #3



Body and Fluff: Body moderately long, sloping to the tail, broad in front tapering slightly to the rear. Keel of good length, following the line of the back. Feathers: moderately long and close to the body.

[GaryDean26] Again these bodies are short compaired to classical photos.

Legs and Toes: Legs moderately long, straight when viewed from the front. Thighs medium length. Shanks round, strong, and free from feathers. Toes: four, long, straight, and well-spread.
[GaryDean26] Again wasn't there a color for the legs. I thought the standard was yellow or willow. I have seen some pale leg color and some with a hint of willow (green) but I think that we are good in this catagory (unlees I just don't understand the above description which is possible since I haven't been judging legs).

 

[3riverschick]

Gordon Ramsey touts Legbars!!

I was watching Gordon Ramsey's Kitchen Nightmares last night. He was helping a restaurant in England called, "The Granary". He had them put in a hen house and poultry yard for fresh eggs for the eatery. Brought in some Legbars and stated he had some and loved them...Oh the many good eggs they laid!! Anyway, I thought that was interesting. Not sure which color of Legbar he had. But good pics Legbar folk could ID the variety if they could find the episode again. Martha Stewart may have Marans, but the greatest chef in the world ( 12 Michelin stars) has Legbars and is a big fan of the breed.
Best,
Karen
English Light Sussex in western PA, USA.

 

[redchicken9]

First in the ASP each attribute is described for shape, then for color. This is the way I am looking at moderately. It means in relationship with the rest of the body. I don't want it to be used in excess, so if we can say the comb is large, let's say it. For the body length the moderately long was often used, as my birds are more medium lengthed., but the BPS says long back. I feel like the moderate is a soft descriptor, but still useful. Personally, since there are legbars, our form should be the same or very similar.

I'm in OH for a week being an auntie for a newborn, so mom can rest. Little girl on shoulders while I finger type. When I put her down, I'll look at garydean's input. Very much love that you posred your birds and thought about this. Come on all this is the time to do this!!

 

[GaryDean26]

Karen,

Thanks! Intresting news on the Cream Legbar. I have cooked with both Cream Legbar and Marans. I think the French know what they are doing. The Marans eggs are by far my favorite eggs. My EO's are 23 weeks old now. No eggs yet, but I am looking forwards to adding the Basque Country flavor to the samples in my next egg taste test.