CRELE x BARRED Cross Mating = ??

[ChickenLeg]

Yes that is correct.
I wouldn't personally use a black bird to correct or improve barring myself.
I don't see how it would improve it but that just may be me.
I hear of breeders crossing to other things to improve such and such but don't know if it helps or not. If I want to improve barring I stick with barred birds and concentrate on breeding only the ones with the best barring.

Thanks for all the help!

 

[ChickenLeg]

Yes that is correct.
I wouldn't personally use a black bird to correct or improve barring myself.
I don't see how it would improve it but that just may be me.
I hear of breeders crossing to other things to improve such and such but don't know if it helps or not. If I want to improve barring I stick with barred birds and concentrate on breeding only the ones with the best barring.

Another question.. If I didnt have a barred and only blacks to use with creles and I did cross them just for the hell of it, do you know how to mate them and bring them back to full crele?

 

[The Moonshiner]

I still think you could run into the silver issue using blacks.
I'd breed crele rooster to black hens then the offspring pullets back to crele roosters.
That would give you an average of 50% crele offspring.
Any other way may bring in silver to deal with and/or single barred males and non barred females.

 

[ChickenLeg]

I still think you could run into the silver issue using blacks.
I'd breed crele rooster to black hens then the offspring pullets back to crele roosters.
That would give you an average of 50% crele offspring.
Any other way may bring in silver to deal with and/or single barred males and non barred females.

OK thanks, Id be using a verified gold based male so silver wouldnt be a problem, but I was curious about the barred and non barred aspects. Thanks for clarifying the offspring for me.

This is all hypothetical to help me understand genetics before I tried the cross in reality, so if my questions sound foolish or stubborn understand its all for peace of mind of understanding the genetics.

Another question if this isnt too much hassle. If I did use a black male over crele females, would I definitely hatch a few crele females from the cross? Is there anyway to figure out the exact percentage of the crele females hatched from this cross? Correct me if I'm wrong, I could then cross the single barred males over the crele females to make the next generation of males contain double barred again?

 

[OhZark Biddies]

I’d think a black male over crele female would give you all black females and all single barred males.

You could then discard those black hens and choose one of the single barred males to cross back to your original crele hens, and expect 12.5% of the result to be crele females, 12.5% to be crele single barred males, and 12.5% to be double barred males.... the rest would not be crele.

At least that is what I think would be the case, someone can correct me if I’m mistaken.

 

[ChickenLeg]

I’d think a black male over crele female would give you all black females and all single barred males.

You could then discard those black hens and choose one of the single barred males to cross back to your original crele hens, and expect 12.5% of the result to be crele females, 12.5% to be crele single barred males, and 12.5% to be double barred males.... the rest would not be crele.

At least that is what I think would be the case, someone can correct me if I’m mistaken.

Thanks ohzark, Ive been reading through different forums, past posts on here, and using chicken calculators to try and figure these crosses out. The calculator said the same as you, black sexink hens and males single barring.

I was curious if the calculator was always right, or if it just sent me in a good direction? I am also curious if the single barred males still have the duckwing in there genotype and the barred is just the phenotype being expressed? If so how do I calculate the genetic %s you posted. Im trying to understand this the best I can, any help is appreciated!!!!

 

[OhZark Biddies]

I was just taking the percentages from the calculator.

As far as the single barred crele males, the overall colors should be darker or more defined than the double barred males. But barred cockerels can vary a bit, making it unclear for some individuals, as to which they are, without doing a test cross to prove out that they are single or double barred.

 

[ChickenLeg]

View attachment 1610626

I was just taking the percentages from the calculator.

As far as the single barred crele males, the overall colors should be darker or more defined than the double barred males. But barred cockerels can vary a bit, making it unclear for some individuals, as to which they are, without doing a test cross to prove out that they are single or double barred.

Is this an online calculator or a downloadable version? I cant seem to find how to input single barred in the chicken calculator and the version I use doesnt show photos of the phenotypes from the crosses.

 

[The Moonshiner]

I'll leave silver out of the equation then.
Black male over crele female will not give any crele offspring.
Here's the deal. I leave out barring for a moment. Black is extended black. Barred is extended black. Crele is duckwing.
If you cross barred or black with crele the offspring will have one gene for extended black and one for duckwing. Extended black is dominate over duckwing so offspring will be black. I've found that most times a bit of the duckwing will show so you can get some of the duckwing pattern to bleed through or at least the black won't be a even dark black. With doing the crosses enough you can start to tell a pure black or barred from an extended black/duckwing bird. Just some info for the future.
With the cross those birds have to throw one gene or the other. If bred back to crele the crele will throw 100% duckwing and the mixed birds will throw one or the other so half will be crele and half would be extended black/crele.
If you cross the cross chicks together then each side will throw one of the two so about 50% extended black/duckwing, 25% duckwing and 25% extended black.
Back to barring. Barring is sex linked so females are either barred or they're not. Females pass whichever they are to their male offspring. So if the female is barred her male offspring will get one barred gene. If she isn't barred they will get one non barred gene.
Males can be non barred single barred or double barred.female offspring get their gene from father only so if he isn't barred they won't be either. If he is double barred they will be barred. If he is single barred they have a chance at getting the barred gene or getting the none barred gene so 50% split of barred and non barred.
With barring you just look at both parents and you'll know whether they'll throw barred or non barred or if the male is single barred it will be either.
Just try to look at the barring on its own and the extended black/duckwing on its own when figuring the crosses then you can put the two back together. It makes it a little easier and not so overwhelming that way.
Its early here so hope I put that all down in a way that makes sense.

 

[ChickenLeg]

I'll leave silver out of the equation then.
Black male over crele female will not give any crele offspring.
Here's the deal. I leave out barring for a moment. Black is extended black. Barred is extended black. Crele is duckwing.
If you cross barred or black with crele the offspring will have one gene for extended black and one for duckwing. Extended black is dominate over duckwing so offspring will be black. I've found that most times a bit of the duckwing will show so you can get some of the duckwing pattern to bleed through or at least the black won't be a even dark black. With doing the crosses enough you can start to tell a pure black or barred from an extended black/duckwing bird. Just some info for the future.
With the cross those birds have to throw one gene or the other. If bred back to crele the crele will throw 100% duckwing and the mixed birds will throw one or the other so half will be crele and half would be extended black/crele.
If you cross the cross chicks together then each side will throw one of the two so about 50% extended black/duckwing, 25% duckwing and 25% extended black.
Back to barring. Barring is sex linked so females are either barred or they're not. Females pass whichever they are to their male offspring. So if the female is barred her male offspring will get one barred gene. If she isn't barred they will get one non barred gene.
Males can be non barred single barred or double barred.female offspring get their gene from father only so if he isn't barred they won't be either. If he is double barred they will be barred. If he is single barred they have a chance at getting the barred gene or getting the none barred gene so 50% split of barred and non barred.
With barring you just look at both parents and you'll know whether they'll throw barred or non barred or if the male is single barred it will be either.
Just try to look at the barring on its own and the extended black/duckwing on its own when figuring the crosses then you can put the two back together. It makes it a little easier and not so overwhelming that way.
Its early here so hope I put that all down in a way that makes sense.

Thats an explanation I was looking for! I knew some of the info you gave but you added in some good points that I can now carry with me from here on out. Thanks a ton, Im sure Ill be back in the future with more questions but I will bookmark this thread. I think you made some good points future members can utilize if they find this thread. Thanks