For those of you don't vote....

[BlackBart]

Quote:
Location.

I have two History Professors in the family and if I remember correctly.............

Germany invaded Poland in the Fall of 1939.
Britain and France gave Germany ultimatum to leave or else. They didn't leave.
Britain and France declared War on Germany in the Fall (Sept?) of 1939 and approx one week later Canada joined the War against Germany.
The USA joined WW2 after the bombing of Pearl Harbor in 1941.
Japan wanted the control of the Hawaiian Islands because of its proximity to North America and its reserves.

It wasn't that long ago (1920's?) the the USA had a plan to invade Canada because of its proximity to Britain.
Why they wanted to invade Britain I don't remember.
I think the strategic plan was called War Plan Red or something like that.

 

[rebelcowboysnb]

What location did the US have that Japan needed bad enough to make it worth dragging the biggest military power in the world in to the war on the opposing side?

We were on the other side of the world from them an the war.

 

[BlackBart]

Quote:
The Hawaiian Islands would be a land base for the Japan military force. Sort of the same as the USA base in Guam. Strategic placement.
Why they thought they could get away with it, I have no idea. There is lots of theories on that one, I have heard some of the theories but I don't really pay too much attention. Only the Japanese military know for sure.
Japan also had a huge military force as well. I believe they had the largest battleships in the world at that time, plus virtually unlimited personal.
They were no competition for the allies though.

 

[rebelcowboysnb]

The Hawaiian Islands make a great land base for attacks on the US but we were not at war with them until they attacked them. If we were at war with them It would make since to try to take them but not to add an enemy. It had no value to the war they were already in. An they had the ability to take Hawaii but didn't. Just hit an ran. Bad strategy to cause it left her in our hands to attack them from.

 

[Organics North]

Quote:
Well, yes and no.... Yes we were gaining steam after the close of the European theater, but still we had not landed on Japan... IMO that would have been one heck of a long bloody battle... My dad was sitting in the Philippine Islands waiting to land on Japan, after the wrap up in Europe... He waited and waited... Then the war was over.
It is my opinion that with out the nuclear bomb, the war with Japan may have ended up more like Korea, or Vietnam... Determined people that do not want you on their soil is tough if not impossible to have a full victory. Or an even worse scenario would have been we gave Japan to our allied of the time China!


rebelcowboysnb, I am with you.. something just does not add up in the history books.. Why would they do a little hit and run on Hawaii?

I still firmly believe that people in US government some how encouraged/knew about the attack. They needed that attack on American soil to get the backing of the American people to enter WWII. It was obvious we were planning on sitting it out and not getting involved with Europe.

At least this kind of thing has been in the last decade! False intelligence was used to get the American people to support a second war on Iraq.

ON

 

[rebelcowboysnb]

Have we ever fought a war that wasn't under false pretenses?

 

[dacjohns]

Why didn't you vote has gone off on a tangent to a WWII strategy and policy discussion.

 

[BlackBart]

When you think of it from a analytical perspective, if they bombed all the warships that were in Pearl Harbor, the invasion into North America would be (for the lack of a better word) easier. If they made the Hawaiian Islands a base it would be closer than going from Japan plus they wouldn't have interference from the US Navel base in Hawaii.
I am just skimming over what I remember on why they bombed Pearl Harbor. I don't have room in my head nor the memory

(or desire) to retain all the reasons for War. There is all sorts of complex pieces that come into play. Something about steel, not being able to buy steel from the USA and other Trade issues.

The History Professors/Military analysts have been banned from talking about these things at the family dinner table. I occasionally pick up bits and pieces when I take them coffee in the library. Some of it is very interesting, most of it is gory. To me anyway.
One thing I have noticed in their analyzing battles is they use the word enemy. They do not use a Nationality ex: Germans, Russians, Vietcong etc.. I think that is smart, it is a separation for objectiveness.

Whether the Governments have prior knowledge of these things will remain to be seen. It wouldn't surprise me.
Traditionally, in the more populated countries the Military has been the single biggest employer so maybe that is the answer in itself?

Wow this has gone way off from the original topic.............but it is all related, indirectly, in the root of the problem.

 

[Q9]

Quote:
WWI, WWII, Korea, Vietnam, Persian Gulf Wars 1 & 2, War for Southern Independence... All started through falsehood. Or, in the case of WWI, through the double-standards of the man who is second only to Teddy Roosevelt as the most psychotic president ever. 1812 and the original War for Independence are the only ones I can think of that weren't started dishonestly. All the minor wars had lies behind them, too.

 

[Q9]

Quote:
Well, yes and no.... Yes we were gaining steam after the close of the European theater, but still we had not landed on Japan... IMO that would have been one heck of a long bloody battle... My dad was sitting in the Philippine Islands waiting to land on Japan, after the wrap up in Europe... He waited and waited... Then the war was over.
It is my opinion that with out the nuclear bomb, the war with Japan may have ended up more like Korea, or Vietnam... Determined people that do not want you on their soil is tough if not impossible to have a full victory. Or an even worse scenario would have been we gave Japan to our allied of the time China!


rebelcowboysnb, I am with you.. something just does not add up in the history books.. Why would they do a little hit and run on Hawaii?

I still firmly believe that people in US government some how encouraged/knew about the attack. They needed that attack on American soil to get the backing of the American people to enter WWII. It was obvious we were planning on sitting it out and not getting involved with Europe.

At least this kind of thing has been in the last decade! False intelligence was used to get the American people to support a second war on Iraq.

ON

Assuming that The Bomb was the reason the Japanese surrendered. They wanted to go on fighting even AFTER the Bombs, but Stalin was preparing to enter the war. At that point, they threw their hands up. Smart choice - on one side you have one of the most merciless governments ever, and on the other you have a force that has demonstrated that it is more than willing to kill 200,000 civilians and destroy entire cities for no reason except intimidation.

Stalin is who pushed them to surrender, really. They knew he would be vindictive thanks to Russia getting beaten in their last war the the Japs.