Health insurance rant.

[Organics North]

Quote:
Well...all I can say is that 'govt health insurance' (Medicare) has done a fine job of keeping my FIL alive.. He recently had a porcine valve replacement, had his thumb joint ground down and replace with a ball-bearing because of arthritis, etc etc -- all under Medicare.

I know lots of folks -- some of whom RAIL against "govt health insurance" -- who seem happier with their medicare than I am with my current private insurance situation.

I worked for the federal govt till I became medically unable. Please believe me ehen i say the govenment is allways self serving. this plan will not workas promised, it will not be more efficient, it will not save you money unless you consider rationed health care a bargain.

Right now we effectively have rationing because some people are not or cannot pay for health insurance/ care.
With this plan we will have rationing because a govt stooge will tell a dr provide care for xx$ a year.

A govt stooge vs. an insurance company stooge...sorry, but I don't see much difference. Right now, insurance companies dictate to healthcare providers what the "allowable amounts" will be for certain products, services, and procedures..

Frankly, I think I'd rather have a 'govt stooge' do it than a private insurance company stooge, because at least the government stooge is, at some level, accountable to voters and taxpayers.

What will happen is research will come to a halt, new drugs and therapies will never come into use, WHY? There is no money in it.

Well, considering the fact that insurance companies already do what it is you're saying the government is going to do by stepping in and telling medical professionals what they can and can't charge for certain products and services, I guess I'd have to disagree with you..

If what you say is going to happen were actually going to happen, it would already have happened...but it didn't.

And it won't.

Without the financial incentive no company is going to invest its stockholders monies into a project that the govt wont pay for (or as things are going the president might order it to be given away)

You seem to have a misunderstanding of what we're talking about trying in this country... We're talking about national health insurance -- not socialized medicine. I know that the terminology is bad right now (ie., "healthcare reform" and "national healthcare", etc.), but the reality is that 100% of the reform effort focuses on health insurance because that's where the problem is in this country right now.

Nothing in this life is free, if its given away it was probably worthless. Except for love that is.

Comon folks, you cant expect the govt to just keep giving things away, there is no cosmic santa claus out there.

If you havnt realized it yet WE ARE BROKE.

How is the government "giving things away" if they offer a health insurance policy, a la medicare/medicaid, on a FOR-PAY basis? Sorry, but that's not giving anything away -- that's taking something BACK that's currently being given away to private insurance companies in the form of the trillions of dollars worth of premiums paid by healthy people with money.

See, insurance companies get ALL that money, and when those people are no longer healthy and/or no longer have any money, they get kicked off to medicare/medicaid and we have to foot the bill.

Do you see how that works? Think about it, seriously...they collect premiums for YEARS from healthy people with money who typically don't use much of their coverage, and when those people get sick and actually NEED the care for which they've been paying all these years, they get dropped...insurance company keeps the premium money, taxpayer foots bill for care.

Seriously...think. That's what's happening, and by being AGAINST national health insurance reform, you're only helping to keep that unfair, costly system in place.

Is that really what you want?

We spent and spent and spent, from the war on poverty through vietnam, medicare, medicaid, the free prescription drug program, the gulf war x2, the war on terror, to big to fail. endless extensions of unemployment. The money we spend now is Chinas. You are spending our childrens future.

I agree with all that....which is why I think it's high time the government give itself the ability to start collecting premiums from younger, healthier people with money instead of allowing private insurance companies to get them all and stick the taxpayer with all the sick and elderly.

I have the solution, you will work the job the government will give you, it will be fair based on a government apptitude test and the countries needs. Oh also taking racial and sexual quotas in effect. Toally fair. the govt will collect your pay but provide a home, medical care, and food. Again totally fair and above board. We can even have all meetings and dealmaking on cspan to make it the most transparent govt yet. Time for change! Cradle to grave govt care. If you ask im sure that your request will find a sympathetic ear. Just ask...

Read your quote, and then think about what I just said...then ask yourself how it's socialism if the government that's expected to clean up after the private health insurance companies, allowing them to keep all the profits while WE foot the bill for all their would-be losses, finally wises up and says "TO HECK WITH THIS" and gives itself permission to compete in the free market..

That's anything but communism...as a fed-up taxpayer and someone who knows quite well how the government's going broke -- through little schemes like this -- it looks to me like common sense, long overdue.​

Well said...

ON​

 

[Sonoran Silkies]

Quote:
I don't think we've ever broken through a deductible.. I actually have a bill sitting at the house right now for $211 -- for a single freakin' xray -- despite the fact that we're almost to the end of our plan-year and that our per-person deductible for this plan year was only $250 per person..

No kids.. We're in our 30's.. It's mostly just random/routine doctor visits, scripts, and trips to urgent treatment for oopsies around the farm. Anything can happen, of course, but I really don't expect our situation to change very much..

I was talking to someone else here at the office who had the 'high' plan this time around, and he's switching his whole family over to the core plan, too.. Looked at the cost difference of >$3,000/year and said...uh uh...even with two elementary-age kids, they barely broke their deductibles last year.

Betcha *everybody* goes to the core plan this time around, which will save the company -- since they pay half -- a TON of money.

As I said, do the math. I don't know your expenses. so I can't do it for you, but I know that every time I check our options I have found some mild surprises. Worst case scenario is that it reinforces your decision to take the core plan. Any family who anticipates major expenses during the year (childbirth, surgery, etc.) might well do better on the plan that covers more. But maybe not--you really need to do the math so you can make an informed dcision.

That xray by itself almost took you through the deductible add one doctor's visit and you are likely there.

 

[PineappleMama]

Quote:
1) That is AWESOME. Unfortunately it's not quite the same here, maybe it's a state by state thing? My Gran and Papabear both died, and not prettily, under that plan... won't go into details, but it boiled down to how much the hospital was getting not being enough.

2) The plan going into effect ISN'T Medicaid/care as it is now. And, even if it was, adding 30 MILLION new users to any system causes problems. Adding them to a system that's already busting at the seams is a disaster waiting to happen. As it is it takes MONTHS to get in to see your doctor unless it's an emergency, then you're sent to the ER, which IMHO defeats the purpose of having a PCP in the first place if they don't have any space for patients. Many schedule Routine Things for X slots per day, then they have X slots for Today's Calls... insurance requires them to only spend X time per patient, so they can cram their day full. That's right now, you may very well never SEE your doc, but his nurse or NP, if you do it'll be short. Adding another 30 million patients will not help that. Right now the medical field is starving for techs, docs, etc... but at the same time can't always afford to hire enough... hence the waits... toss in millions more, that can go to the doc for free for so much as a stubbed toe, and we're gonna have problems. There's just not enough TIME to brace the system for this onslaught, even if there were enough people willing to do it.

3) With malpractice suits as nutty as they are, MANDATORY malpractice insurance is so high that doctors are literally having to retire because they cannot afford to be a doctor anymore. Particularly in the OB/GYN fields. The Doc that delivered my two is one of them, she no longer handles OB anymore... to keep your practice, your home, you have to lower your premiums, only way to do that is to take less risky patients... this is especially bad in rural areas where there was only one doc... a small operation just can't afford the government required licensing, insurance, etc. So, now ladies are having to drive an hour or more which just increases problems... So, you have doctors leaving the field... and students hearing that this this and this field isn't safe to practice, and that this this and this field are with HUGE premiums so you'll never be able to buy a house n'mind paying back the thousands in loans... so you have less students finishing med school as well. Instead of the MORE we need our Doctors are dropping, while patients are increasing... it ain't gonna be pretty. And you can't force someone to remain a doctor or put themselves in debt to become a doctor.

Malpractice Insurance, Health Insurance... it's all a racket... and it's the patients (and some Docs) that are losing... but darned if those stockholders don't look happy.

 

[geckobass5]

Everyone is so sure this is gong to work, just like the war on poverty was a success.
The only reason why meidcare gets good prices from a doctor is because it tells the doctor to do thousands of dollars of surgery for hundreds. So what choice does he have to do than to raise the prices for everyone else. so the next guy comes with brand x insurance an brand z insurance covers 20% of the people and negociated the price to be 25% of the real cost of the treatment. but if the dr does a boatload of these and some customers who are paying out of pocket he can make it.
What happens when all the doctor can charge for a 2 hour surgery is $200, he wont do it.

This is where we are headed.

I have seen my surgeon at least once a month if not weekly for years.

He told me a story represenitive of how things work. He gets a call, An elderly patient had a serious condition that could be alleviated by using a large srynge, he tell the dr working the floor to do this, 2 hours later the patient gets worse, he has to go in for emergency surgery. Medicare says they will only pay for 1 procedure a day so they will pay for the 29 $ needle and not the big bill surgery.
All im saying is that these cost savings only work as long as someone else is paying the lions share, right now its the uninsured . Heres why, the medicare/ medicaid and insured all have someone to force/ negociate artificially low rates to the doctors. The doctors then have to pay their overhead, pay school loans malpractice insurance, and to tell you the truth they work long hours and have a very difficult job and SHOULD be compensated. So the doctors/ hospitals bill at a much higher rate to make up for the cheap negociated rates.
So the govt is going to step in and somehow knows what these things cost and will pay the fair amount, everyone will receive treatment and be happy. I doubt it the reality is the govtt will probably tell doctors to provide care for a fixed amount, anybody with serious health problems will get little treatment because health care will be rationed. rationing is the cure for rising costs here. I guess the conclusion that can be reached is that you are OK with poor medical care as long as every one else gets the same, except for the rich who can afford what the govt wont pay for, and the politicians who have the best of care. I dont get it. Medicare is not funded properly through medicare taxes/contributions and is a huge drain in the taxpayers, the VA's costs are through the roof, people complain of some terrible treatment there(not all) but you would like to supersize that system and somehow it will work. I dont see that happening. since when has repeating the same thing on a larger scale yield different results?
Im very happy with bcbs, and have found medicare at 110$ a month to be a ripoff as it only covers costs after bcbs, which is very little because bcbs does a great job.

Woulnt it have been cheaper to make a law with heavy penalties to be awarded to patients if insurance companies illegally drop/deny coverage.

Having had worked in the govt i do not trust it to get things right, this should tell you something. Remember Katrina? the govt got it right eh? Good job brownie. Just like they are on top of this oil spill, yep they have their boot on BP's neck. There are countless examples of the govts inability to get things right. an when they fail the answer is allways to throw more money at it. a perfect example of that is education. We throw more and more money into failing school districts. The kids still drop out. Private schools do a better job for less money. its a fact. the govt will not give you a voucher so your kid can get a goo education though, its more important to protect the govt schools. And you want to trust them with your life. The same got that performed medical experiments in tuskeege and force sterilized women in NC. go ahead and get the govt insurance. You get what you pay for.
Tell you what, you can have govt insurance so long as i can have my bcbs. That fine with me. Just dont set up a system that makes it more expensive to keep my insurance or use taxpayer money to undercut legitimate buisness and then once all the choices are gone im stuck with govt insurance.
Can you respect the fact that people want a choice? Im typing with one hand in bed, im not editing the typos. So long as everyone pays equally for the real cost and their is no deficiet spending, knock yourself out, then again we know there will be over a trillion dollars worth of debt generated from the govt plan from the get go. The real cost will probably double as all govt programs do.

 

[geckobass5]

I'm not saying anything more about this. At this point people are set in their opinions.

 

[Organics North]

Everyone is so sure this is gong to work, just like the war on poverty was a success.

Was everyone so sure? I was not! Matter of fact we have not won anything labeled "war" since World War II.......Personally to proclaim "war" on something it will likely fail.. ..

I don't think anyone is sure of anything here with health care. It is just that many people feel it could be better than it is know. Two choices.. Complain about how bad everything is, how incompetent our government is.....OR.....Try try and try again making changes seeing if they work, then make adjustments.

What happens when all the doctor can charge for a 2 hour surgery is $200, he wont do it.

Well I suppose that depends. If the surgeon, can pocket the $200 and not have to hand most of it over to lawyers to protect him from being sued...Then I bet there are plenty that would do it. $100 an hour is good money!

Woulnt it have been cheaper to make a law with heavy penalties to be awarded to patients if insurance companies illegally drop/deny coverage.

Hey its an idea! Thanks for sharing it.

Personally, It sounds like a way to get even more money into the lawyers pockets, with less money going into heath care.

I'm not saying anything more about this. At this point people are set in their opinions.

I personally enjoy your viewpoint and posts on this subject. Though my personal opinion is quite different than yours. I hope everyones opinions are not set in stone! Mine sure is not. I am just enjoying the outlet to vent some of my frustration with the healthcare system and get an idea of what other people think. Also it is fun to toss out ideas and read others ideas.. (For me, the more I understand different viewpoints the less frustration I feel. I call it an education.

)

Be well.
ON​

 

[WalkingWolf]

Everybody we talked to their health insurance has gone up, and benifits down. We were warned that this was going to happen last year. The company expects it to get even higher in the next 2 years. When it comes down to the nitty gritty we may as well drop insurance pay the yearly fine, and then restart it if we get sick. A lot of small companies are going to opt for the fine over the higher rates.

 

[I have WHAT in my yard?]

I haven't been around lately as I am helping a friend go through chemo.

After a ten hour day at the infusion center we need to go to the pharmacy for her meds. She is exhausted and not feeling at all well, but I cannot go without her to get them as some are narcotics and they said she needed to be there. So we sit. And sit.

Finally, the pharmacist sheepishly admits that the insurance company will not cover her meds because she had already had too much steroids already.

Most of the people who are calling the "new plan" socialism clearly do not understand socialism. Nor do they grasp that we were far far more socialistic in the 50's (remember that so called golden time?) than we are now. I don't like the new plan at all. But, I hate what we have.

 

[Sonoran Silkies]

I have WHAT in my yard? :

I haven't been around lately as I am helping a friend go through chemo.

After a ten hour day at the infusion center we need to go to the pharmacy for her meds. She is exhausted and not feeling at all well, but I cannot go without her to get them as some are narcotics and they said she needed to be there. So we sit. And sit.

Finally, the pharmacist sheepishly admits that the insurance company will not cover her meds because she had already had too much steroids already.

Most of the people who are calling the "new plan" socialism clearly do not understand socialism. Nor do they grasp that we were far far more socialistic in the 50's (remember that so called golden time?) than we are now. I don't like the new plan at all. But, I hate what we have.

From wikipedia: "Socialism is an economic and political theory based on public ownership or common ownership and cooperative management of the means of production and allocation of resources." (the bold is mine) for the entire article: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Socialism

I do not see any way at all that the 1950's US can be considered socialistic. The portion of the quote above that I put in bold is exactly why people are calling the new plan socialistic.

As to your friend's meds., I can only assume that either she has reached the maximum of prescription benefits, in which case she would/should have been offered the opportunity to pay out of pocket for them, or that software to catch meds that interact badly caught the amount of steroids she was on and it triggered a red flag. In this case a call to the doctors should clear up the medical concern in one way or another. Although the insurance denial may need to be formally disputed, with medical reasoning from the physician.​

 

[Organics North]

Quote:
From wikipedia: "Socialism is an economic and political theory based on public ownership or common ownership and cooperative management of the means of production and allocation of resources." (the bold is mine) for the entire article: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Socialism

I do not see any way at all that the 1950's US can be considered socialistic. The portion of the quote above that I put in bold is exactly why people are calling the new plan socialistic.

As to your friend's meds., I can only assume that either she has reached the maximum of prescription benefits, in which case she would/should have been offered the opportunity to pay out of pocket for them, or that software to catch meds that interact badly caught the amount of steroids she was on and it triggered a red flag. In this case a call to the doctors should clear up the medical concern in one way or another. Although the insurance denial may need to be formally disputed, with medical reasoning from the physician.

Wow shocking, Sonoran Silkies!.. I think like I Have What In My Yard.... That Wiki link to Socialism is not what I think of when I think off the governments of ALL other first world nations but the USA. Maybe socialism is the wrong word to describe them and the way the USA was during the great depression through the 50's. The USA attitude was nothing like post the Reagan conservatism of today.

(IHWIMY,, the best to your friend. Soak up every second...

)
ON