Healthy hen drops dead. Autopsy pics. **graphic**

[theladieskeeper]

I don't mean to upset by saying this but IF I was fed water that looked like this I'd prolly die too. Has this water ever been

When you feed whole grains it gives them the option to pick and choose which pieces they want and it can cause them to not get a proper complete diet.
And feeding scratch and table scraps on top of that makes their "complete" diet even more diluted.

I highly recommend feeding a pelleted or crumble feed only from now on.
If you must feed anything other than just that then limit it to a small amount once a week. Not daily.

yes i will have to definately reevaluate this expensive organic non gmo feed no soy feed... or limit it. I may have too much of it out at once. I didnt really think they would over eat.. well always learning somethimg new..

 

[Kiki]

yes i will have to definately reevaluate this expensive organic non gmo feed no soy feed... or limit it. I may have too much of it out at once. I didnt really think they would over eat.. well always learning somethimg new..

It's not so much them over eating...they will fill up on the not so good parts of the feed before they eat the good parts...if that even makes sense.
Just don't give them that option and you should be ok.
I am not sure how many other birds you have or how old they are and I doubt that whats done is done is reversible but you can help prevent adding more fat to their bodies.

 

[theladieskeeper]

It's not so much them over eating...they will fill up on the not so good parts of the feed before they eat the good parts...if that even makes sense.
Just don't give them that option and you should be ok.
I am not sure how many other birds you have or how old they are and I doubt that whats done is done is reversible but you can help prevent adding more fat to their bodies.

I have 18 left. They will be 2 in october, which is dissapointing since i bought heritage birds for a longer life span than production birds. Hopefully its not too late.

 

[Kiki]

I have 18 left. They will be 2 in october, which is dissapointing since i bought heritage birds for a longer life span than production birds. Hopefully its not too late.

 

[theladieskeeper]

A big thanks to everyone for the comments and great links. This site is soo helpful because of people like you guys..
Thanks
Cheryle

 

[Kiki]

A big thanks to everyone for the comments and great links. This site is soo helpful because of people like you guys..
Thanks
Cheryle

Thank you for sharing your story and pictures with us.

 

[Eggcessive]

In fatty liver hemorrhagic disease, the liver may appear tan or putty colored. There also can be evidence of hemorrhage which could be the bloody colored blob. The black thing looks like the gallbladder which normally is next to the liver.

https://www.merckvetmanual.com/poul...f-fatty-liver-hemorrhagic-syndrome-in-poultry

http://www.poultrydvm.com/condition/fatty-liver-syndrome

 

[Shezadandy]

I don’t know about the OP, but I have several of those kinds of pans in my chicken yard that get scrubbed out twice a day and look like that. Chickens walk through them to cool off in 95 degree weather, and they have other regular chicken waterers as well.

Me too!! I have several hens that delight in turning my crystal clear water pans into things that look worse than that- they love dragging the watermelon skins left from the day before- some will stand, soak -- and inevitably poop in the water.... but … ours also have sealed 5 gallon buckets with lids and poultry cups, so the pans are there as accessory items. Of course … any time I dump a waterer or empty out the big one, they all rush to drink it off the ground as it drains away!

 

[Shezadandy]

yes i will have to definately reevaluate this expensive organic non gmo feed no soy feed... or limit it. I may have too much of it out at once. I didnt really think they would over eat.. well always learning somethimg new..

Definitely. I would look into labels for the major brands - Purina and all those - for the applicable age appropriate product (i.e. Layena (layer) vs. Start and Grow)-- and compare it to the guaranteed analysis of what you're buying currently.

If there is no guaranteed analysis in your current feed to compare it with, you have no way of knowing what they're getting. We all do things differently, but at the end of the day we're all trying to do the same thing- meet the nutritional requirements of our chickens-- and those figures (at least) are pretty standard.

I'm sorry for your losses - and thank you so much for sharing the pictures- very educational.

 

[rebrascora]

Hi
Firstly I commend you for opening your hen up and taking photos and trying to get to the bottom of why she died.
I agree with the consensus of opinion. Fatty Liver Haemorrhagic syndrome. I have not seen a liver in quite such a bad condition, both colour and texture. The black will most likely be congealed blood from a huge haemorrhage of the liver which would cause sudden death. That also explains the heart looking pale and as you are aware, the huge amount of fat throughout the abdominal cavity and surrounding the organs is extremely unhealthy in itself.

That fat, both as the thick yellow deposits and also the infiltration of fat molecules throughout the liver causing the orange colour is as a result of a diet too high in carbohydrates and not enough exercise.

Just to be clear, can you post a photo of the feed you use and how you provide it to the hens?

As @KikisGirls has explained, a whole grain feed allows the birds to pick out their favourite bits and they will almost always go for the high carbohydrate option over the healthier pulses that provide protein. A processed homogenous pellet or crumble may contain all the same ingredients but the chickens eat a balanced diet because they cannot pick and choose. It also means they get all the vitamins and essential amino acids which are usually in the powdery fines in a less processed grain feed and often that gets billed out and wasted on the ground. If you do feed a whole grain feed, it needs to be limited rather than fed ad lib so that they clear up all the less favoured components after they have picked out the "best bits". I am told that fermenting such feeds and giving them a ration twice a day in a pan, can prevent these Fatty Liver Problems, but to me it is safer to give them a pelleted feed. You will also find that there is almost no waste with pellets thereby reducing the risk of rodents coming to "clean up" overnight.
These less processed grain feeds are also more of a health risk to larger Heritage breeds that are kept penned. If they have a limited supply and free range to burn off the extra carbs, you may get away with it. Smaller, flightier birds will burn the surplus calories off better.

So many people have experienced deaths in their flock from Fatty Liver like this, due to these feeds I do wonder if it warrants a sticky somewhere to alert people to the dangers. I know there are proponents of less processed feeds like this and I understand why but it is really important that people know how to use them ie rationed and scattered on the ground or fermented and fed from a pan. Calculating how much that ration needs to be is not as easy as just hanging a feeder of pellets and letting the hens eat as much as they want. The protein/carb balance in the pellet will fill the bird up and prevent over eating.

The fatty deposits that are likely inside your other birds are also likely to cause reproductive disorders like prolapse, salpingitis (look out for lash eggs) and internal laying as the fat can cause misalignment of the ovary and oviduct and result in ripe yolks dropping into the abdominal cavity instead of travelling the normal route down the oviduct, as may have started to happen with this bird. You may see cases of ascites(water belly) too. I would do a weekly check of vents and abdomens for soiling and bloat/swelling. Soiled vents usually indicate that there is abdominal swelling. Fly strike is also more likely, so keep an eye out for that. Checking them whilst they roost at night is by far the easiest way, by cupping your hand between their legs as they stand on the roost bar. Also look out for birds walking with a wide stance and as I mentioned previously, poopy butts.

The problem with liver damage is that you don't see any noticeable symptoms until it is beyond reversible. That said, I believe that vitamin B complex can be beneficial in supporting the liver, so that might be something to try.

I wish you luck with your remaining birds. There is a genetic element to Fatty Liver, so it could be that this bird was more predisposed to it or it could be that she was higher on the pecking order and got first dibs at the "best bits" of the feed and lower pecking order birds were left to clear up the higher protein components.