Historic Presence of Jungle Fowl in the American Deep South

[Chicken Heel]

There's nothing like the mountains of WNC. I hate how outsiders with money have displaced so much of that culture, especially in your area.

I certainly agree although I now live in the Southside VA area. The mountains of my youth are hardly recognizable now whenever I am traveling through. But my Pa Shook's barn he built around 1940 and the home he built in 1938 still are there with a cousin watching over them.

 

[Ntsees]

Check it out!

https://digitalcommons.georgiasouthern.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1762&context=etd
According to this research paper, red jungle fowl of wild caught, pure, Indian stock were released and distrubted all over the Southeast from the late 1940s to the 1970s. Way more than what we’ve acknowledged in this thread up until now. Far more than just the Fitzgerald group. It says over 1,000 were released into the wild in Florida in multiple counties and more were distributed to private breeders in Florida.

How ‘bout that?

Thousands were released, but they all failed to naturalize in the U.S. unlike the ring-neck pheasant. Descendants from those pure birds imported in the 1960s still exist today, and they remain pure only because the private breeders never crossed them with chickens.

 

[Florida Bullfrog]

Thousands were released, but they all failed to naturalize in the U.S. unlike the ring-neck pheasant. Descendants from those pure birds imported in the 1960s still exist today, and they remain pure only because the private breeders never crossed them with chickens.

That paper implies that RJF were circulated to many private individuals and breeding operations independent of the releases into the wild. I would find it doubtful that their genes didn’t end up spread to domestic chickens in several places in the SE. Which comes full circle to the original question of the thread. I’m not interested really in what happened to any stock that remained pure. I’m interested in what got mixed into chickens that ended up in Southern barnyards.

After digesting all of the information in this thread and other research I’ve done, I surmise that the closest guess as to what any old Florida landrace would have been may have been Spanish games. The flock I grew up with was probably Blueface American games.

But quite independently of the origins of the “Cracker” games, there is absolutely a basis to suspect that RJF genes were introduced to Southern chickens in the mid 20th century. The introduction was much more widespread than the Fitzgerald birds. A few lines stayed pure, but I suspect many that went to breeders were crossed with local games.

I’d fascinated by the “Carolina bantam” breed mentioned in the paper that appears to be a feral batam created from several cross breedings of various common bantams then crossed with RJF and selected for southern woods life.

I’m satisfied I’ll only ever have a vague idea of what the Cracker landrace may have been if anything, and what I knew as a child was probably much more of an American game type than what a Cracker may have known in 1890.

I now want to know what my current flock is. I can rule out hatchery junglefowl and American gamefowl due to the size, as my birds are far to small to be either. Yet they’re too big to be American game bantams and they have white ears to boot (note that Hei Hei’s red ear now looks white sometimes). They’re the right size but wrong traits otherwise to be Spanish. They’re the right size to be these “Carolina bantams” but wrong color (I have found one reference to Carolina bantams, before being crossed with RJF, as having been black [fascinating that the woods life selected for black coloration]).

 

[centrarchid]

If a gamefowl breeder suspected RJF from any source were intermingling with the gamefowl, then the gamefowl would be destroyed in short order.

 

[EggWalrus]

If a gamefowl breeder suspected RJF from any source were intermingling with the gamefowl, then the gamefowl would be destroyed in short order.

True. Every game breeder I've ever met wants to keep their bloodlines true. A neighbor of mine that breeds, shows and sells Lewis' Hatch, Roundheads, and Asils culled about 200 chicks because one of my silkies roosters knocked up a bunch of his hens. Most the babies came out 5 toed and black faced. And he sells Games, not eggs. And his Games sell for $1000s. You can't make that kind of money selling eggs.

 

[Florida Bullfrog]

If a gamefowl breeder suspected RJF from any source were intermingling with the gamefowl, then the gamefowl would be destroyed in short order.

Do you mean anyone who raised gamefowl? Or just dedicated cock fighters who bred their birds for fighting?

 

[Ntsees]

...I now want to know what my current flock is. I can rule out hatchery junglefowl and American gamefowl due to the size, as my birds are far to small to be either. Yet they’re too big to be American game bantams and they have white ears to boot (note that Hei Hei’s red ear now looks white sometimes). They’re the right size but wrong traits otherwise to be Spanish. They’re the right size to be these “Carolina bantams” but wrong color (I have found one reference to Carolina bantams, before being crossed with RJF, as having been black [fascinating that the woods life selected for black coloration]).

In my opinion, I agree that your flock do not have gamefowl genes. Pure rjf should weigh about 1 1/2 - 2 pounds, and considering that hei hei weighs just a little more than that is the result of introgression from chickens. Your hei hei has a high percentage of wild red junglefowl genes (probably 50% or greater). Hei hei's wild genes are not from the indian subspecies (gallus gallus murghi), but from the southeast asian subspecies (i.e. g.g. spadiceus). Just my opinion.

 

[Florida Bullfrog]

Remember what I’m talking about are free ranging homestead birds. That’s how games were often kept on Southern farms with little to no interest in fighting them. The purpose they served was to be birds that survived with little to no care. It would be doubtful the average joe would have known what a RJF was, and a RJF cross would likely have just been regarded and kept as some sort of game bantam.

 

[Florida Bullfrog]

In my opinion, I agree that your flock do not have gamefowl genes. Pure rjf should weigh about 1 1/2 - 2 pounds, and considering that hei hei weighs just a little more than that is the result of introgression from chickens. Your hei hei has a high percentage of wild red junglefowl genes (probably 50% or greater). Hei hei's wild genes are not from the indian subspecies (gallus gallus murghi), but from the southeast asian subspecies (i.e. g.g. spadiceus). Just my opinion.

Thanks. Is there such a thing as a chicken DNA test an everyday breeder like me could take?

 

[centrarchid]

Do you mean anyone who raised gamefowl? Or just dedicated cock fighters who bred their birds for fighting?

In the greater scheme, only gamefowl in the hands of cockfighters have persisted as gamefowl. Game chickens spending any length of time outside that realm are at risk of being classified as dung hills and considered high risk investments. Some games drifting outside of gamefowl use have been used to develop many if not most non-gamefowl breeds. Still, even those no longer contribute to gamefowl lines.

Gamefowl are selected for more than fighting. The behaviors and appearance all attest to that.

The non-gamefowl people contributed little if anything to persistence of the gamefowl we know today.