I think I like this raw diet thing!

[yomama]

So these dogs are chewing on raw chicken, with bone in? Do you allow them to ingest bone too? I have nothing against the raw diet, but I've seen WAY too many dogs with impacted or torn colons from ingesting bones. Chicken bones splinter so easily, I'd be worried about my dog eating those.

 

[kari_dawn]

yes, the dogs ingest the raw bone too. The structure of bone changes when cooked. Just like when you cook meat, the structure changes. I bought a meat cleaver to chop up chicken to get Bacardi used to eatting it. raw chicken bone breaks very differently than cooked chicken bone...I know. I have chopped up both with the cleaver just to see the difference. It is kindof like safety glass used in auto windows versus the glass you have in the windows in your home.

Raw bone kindof cubes like safety glass when broken. Cooked bone shatters more like the glass in the windows in your home. Long, sharp shards.

 

[yomama]

Once when I was working, we had a Heeler come in. His owner had him on a raw diet. The bone he was ingesting had compacted into his intestine, basically to the consistency of gravel. It was a very long, difficult surgery, trying to work all that stuff out of his intestine. What's worse, is this didn't happen to him once, but twice. I'm not saying people shouldn't feed raw to their dogs, to each his own. I just worry about stuff like the bone compacting, not to mention parasites, E Coli, and Salmonella, all things dogs are susceptible too. Do you freeze your meat first, to help bypass some of that stuff? I've researched raw diets some, back when I was considering doing it for my dogs. Just too much risk for me, not to mention cost. Of course, I would probably look into it alot further, if I were having issues with all different kinds of dog foods not working with my dogs. I've been fortunate that my dogs have done well on holistic type dog foods. Do those of you that feed raw, supplement any type of vitamins too? Straight meat isn't always going to provide all nutrients that are required. I'm not trying to bash the raw diet, just trying to understand it.

I guess I've just seen the bad end result of it a few too many times.

 

[punk-a-doodle]

Thanks for sharing yomama. I'm debating on switching our heeler to home cooked or raw when we make our next move and can own some property, but that helps me decide. Home cooked seems to have less risks so long as nutritionally complete, and I'm leaning towards that for us.

 

[Scovy Momma]

I still can't get Bacardi to chew on whole big pieces of raw chicken...he is very dainty (as I am sure you can tell from his pictures

what a princess). He doesn't like mud, and will walk WELL around it to avoid getting it on his toes...same thing for water. He does not like to get dirty...how I ended up with such a priss for a dog I will never know...I tried to take him camping once, and he sat on the air mattress and glared at me the whole trip (kinda like his expression in the first picture...I woke him up to take it lol).

He doesn't even like big toys...his favorite things to play with are pen caps, chapstick, and cotton swabs...

He just does not like the sliminess of chicken...he will eat it frozen, but then he can only knaw on it a bit, and never gets down to the bone...and whole chicken bones are very tough for him...he can't seem to break them up enough to really eat them...I have gone to chopping a chicken leg up pretty fine so he can eat the bone pieces...he is four pounds, and his mouth is pretty small...he can't pick up a tennis ball...any suggestions? I kinda think chopping up the food kinda defeats the purpose a little...

I understand prissy boys that don't want to get dirty. My red one in the video,Chewbacca, is a Dachshund/Rat terrier mix & he's about 4lbs like your Bacardi. He walks all tip-toe-y outside when it's wet or dirty. I have shoes for him & the Chihuahua,Lando, when we go for walks because otherwise I have to listen to Chewy's miserable noisey complaints.

I take them four wheeling with me & Chewy is fine as long as he has his shoes on & isn't asked to walk on anything dirty,haha. He would rather just stay in the tent or Jeep.
As for the toys,Lando likes to fetch balls so I have to get the tiny kitty tennis balls because he can just push regular sized tennis balls around,

The way they are eating the wings all whole & fresh like the video took some work,believe me. Lando is no work at all,he eats anything but Chewy is my brat & didn't like the idea of raw when we started. I took to running the different meats,bones & all, through the grinder on a large grind,mixing,bagging in small bags & freezing. Then slicing every feed time. The large grind still ensured that they had to chew their food & bones. They are thorough chewers already & you should never leave an animal unattended while raw feeding anyway.

The frozen pieces he would gnaw on without complaint. I eventually went to freezing the meat in ice cube trays that made it easier for me. The wings used to have to be frozen & he didn't see a difference,then I'd thaw them slightly & eventually he got used to the thawed wings.
They aren't very into toys other than Lando being a tiny tennis ball nut,so for toys/treats I freeze carrots or apple slices & they get to gnaw on those. Keeps the teeth clean. I make my own Greek yogurt & after I strain it all the whey gets frozen in the bone shaped ice cube trays with some liver blood or tuna juice. They like those or dehydrated liver strips. The liver is the only thing that needs to still be slightly frozen when he eats it,otherwise I get the "But mawwwwmmm,it's sliiiimy" look.

Good luck with Bacardi!

As for the bones being "dangerous" you know your pet. If he gulps,he should be taught to eat slower. I had to teach the 80 lb puppy to slow down & chew. It can be done. The things that scare me to feed my dogs are those Greenie things because they shard up like glass sometimes,there was a tiny dog that came in to the vet's with internal bleed & his momma always fed him those. Or the raw hide chips for a dog that doesn't chew well,that has stuck in my dog's throat & I had to shove a couple fingers in his throat to get it dislodged. We don't play with those anymore,haha.

 

[Scovy Momma]

If you're worried about bone compaction you just have to keep an eye on your dog. Mine have a movement about once a day & are on a restroom break schedule. Yes,I have a flash light for when they go out at night & I must seem wierd counting their movements. If he hasn't had a bowel movement, don't try to put more food through his system. Doesn't work for a cloged sink,doesn't work for a dog.
The parasites are not a worry for me because I feed the dogs only food that would be fine for me to eat. I am very clean with prepping & I wash everything down as I do when I prep food for myself. E.coli comes from feces & that has nothing to do with the raw going in their mouths unless they've been chomping a turd

If they were a turd eater & they were fed kibbles,E.coli still has a chance to get in their mouth. Plus,my dogs know not to lick up on people's faces. They give "kisses" by nose taps or nudges or tiny tounge flicks from a distance but they don't touch. I trained them with that not from fear of the raw food,but more because they lick themselves & "crotch tounge" doesn't appeal to me

The price has been waaay cheaper than when I was buying holistic kibbles. I look for sales & stock up. I do the same for myself. We use the same chickens,beef,fish all stored in the same freezer in the garage. I just budget & seperate what is enough for them & myself. Sales are usually once a week to really good deals once a month. Plus I am fortunate to know hunters & get their left overs that they don't particularly want to prep & freeze for themselves.
The nutrients they get from the organs & parts that we as people tend to deter from eating. In turn,people think they need supplements when if they ate more overall rounded out meals they'd be fine,barring those who have individual needs that vary from the "norm".
I'm with you on the fact that many people go into the raw diet without studying on what it entails or they get lazy on the follow through. You have to be diligent on things that involve feces,spilled bloods,dates of the foods,stocking up,watching sales,cleaning,washing,& paying close attention your dogs. I'd be the first to say it would be easier to pour,pat,& walk away. As you have said,yomoma,to each their own. I am just a wreck when I lose a pet & to me all the extra time spent watching them & feeding them as best as I can is worth me possibly keeping them with me longer. The draw backs mean less new puppies in my house but more old friends. That's how I weighed the difference between kibbies & raw.

 

[kari_dawn]

I still chop up the bone into small peices...Bacardi tends to eat around most of them, but he chews his food very well. I have tried splitting the chicken bone length wise to help him be able to chew them up.

Yes, I do freeze my feed for 5 days before using it. Usually, I chop up portions, and freeze them individually. Honestly, to me, the fear of parasites and bacteria ( which CAN and HAVE been found in uncooked human meat products, though not commonly) is miniscule compared to the alarming levels of commercial kibble quality control scares and deaths of dogs that have eatten tainted kibble.

I also mix in fresh raw eggs to give him a little extra nutrition. I just think that the commercial food companies all have us convinced that a more natural diet is dangerous than their baked fried cornmeal covered in extruded beef fat. I have also found that Bacardi poos less, doesn't smell as bad when he does poo (not that it smelled awful before) and it is cheaper to feed him this way than the very high quality commercial grain free diet I was feeding him.

 

[Scovy Momma]

I like you Kari_Dawn,you saw the same problems I saw that convinced me to start raw feeding. That & my coworker spent so much money on her cat that ended up dying when the last big outbreak of poisoned pet foods happened. They have happened many times before & will keep happening,but somehow this fear has people reluctant to feed their pets good for them,cheaper foods. It all comes down to money,I guess.

I was thinking about the bone thing: does he like the cartilage ends of the bones? That's how Chewbacca started getting a taste for bones. He got used to chewing the ends first & cracking them open,after he found the marrow in it is tasty,he really started getting into chewing the bones. Even now,they both leave the harder center parts of the bones after splitting them open,so I just have the bigger dogs eat them up.

The whole pooping less thing is great,isn't it? The poop dries up & just disintegrates into the grass. Takes away from the time of having to pick up & dispose of the "land mines" in the yard. The yard doesn't stink like dog poop,especially with 4 dogs eliminating out there.

I feed them raw eggs also but instead of putting it in their meat everytime,I usually crack them in the bowl for them,for some reason they like to drink it up so I give them that. It has helped them get used to eating different foods. The big dogs like to take the egg whole & crack it open themselves. I do wish I had chickens or more ducks so the kids could have fresh eggs to eat,not to mention me!
They are suckers for fruits & veggies,haha! My folks think it's so funny that ever since they were tiny,they would beg if they saw you eating fruit or veggies.

 

[kari_dawn]

Bacardi is the same way! He LOVES white flesh peaches!

Bacardi loves the cartilage, and the marrow, but he just can't seem to get the leverage or purchase necissary to crack open the bones. It doesn't supprise me...I mean, his skull construction doesn't really allow for a lot of jaw strength....though your chihuahuas seem not to have an issue with it...I also think he has some periodontal issues...his gums are receeding in some spots, but I don't know how to stop it...my vet has seen him about it but doesnt seem to be as concerned about it as I am...I may be looking for a second oppinion. I know how prone chihuahuas are to loosing teeth, and he is 6 years old now...The new thing I am trying with splitting the bones lengthwise seems to be helping though...I know he ate half a chicken leg bone today.

 

[Scovy Momma]

My boys are about 6 years old too. Chewbacca's teeth are great but Lando is a chihuahua & like you say his teeth are not that great, when he was a few months old he had to have oral surgery & now he has maybe 3 teeth that are kind of receding at the gums. I just try to keep an eye & scrape any build up in there with a plaque scraper. I know it seems like a pain but I just brush all of the dogs' teeth every couple of nights with an enzymatic dog paste & a baby toothbrush. The plaque scraper really helps to chip off any build up before it gets really bad. The last time I went to the vet,she was very adamantly against how I fed them (right out of vet school,sponsored by Hill's Science Diet). Then she looked into Lando's mouth & was reluctant to tell me to keep doing whatever I was doing that was keeping his teeth this nice for a chihuahua his age.
All that doesn't keep then from pretending they are pit bulls with amazing jaw strength

Silly pip-squeaks...That's awesome that Bacardi is eating the bones now though! He'll get the hang of it,then his inner Great Dane will come out

You're right about finding a second opinion,just like a doctor for yourself,if they don't address something that you feel should be find another one that will. My pops is always telling me to take my kids to the cheaper vet that he takes my mom's dog & cats to,instead of the better one that's a bit more pricier I go to. The "cheaper vet" just accidentally euthinized my mom's chihuahua last week. Yeah,I'll pay the extra money for quality care.