Layer feed and breeding/roosters

[oldhenlikesdogs]

When I used to feed a layer my large breed roosters would die by age 4. I noticed in my bantam flock the roosters lived much longer. My bantam flock was always fed a non medicated grower for most of the year.

A few years back I switched everyone to an All Flock ration with a separate bowl of oyster shells for the calcium needs and so far my big roosters are living longer. My oldest will be 7 this coming spring.

So in my experiences a layer is hard on roosters and shouldn't be fed to them. A layer isn't necessary as the calcium needs can be met by the oyster shells, so I don't understand why so many continue to feed it. Also I have better shell quality without the layer. The calcium in it is a one size fits all thing, and it doesn't fit my flock as all my hens lay at a different rate and are different ages.

 

[Kris5902]

I think maybe the layer is because a lot of people only keep hens and don’t want to bother with taking the time to provide the oyster shell separately. I was told I was being crazy when I bought it and put it in for the farm chickens before I got my own. I will see if I can get a 17% grower/finisher pellet in at my feed store, and just give the oyster shell on the side and just hope my Roo’s aren’t like chicksnmind’s!

 

[Shadrach]

I think maybe the layer is because a lot of people only keep hens and don’t want to bother with taking the time to provide the oyster shell separately. I was told I was being crazy when I bought it and put it in for the farm chickens before I got my own. I will see if I can get a 17% grower/finisher pellet in at my feed store, and just give the oyster shell on the side and just hope my Roo’s aren’t like chicksnmind’s!

A mixed age and mixed sex flock isn't quite as straightforward to keep if you want longevity as some people would have you believe.

 

[Kris5902]

A mixed age and mixed sex flock isn't quite as straightforward to keep if you want longevity as some people would have you believe.

I’m noticing that for sure! That’s why we have all the different groups housed separately, and I’m trying to figure out the best feeding regimen for my breeders (boy chickens matter too!) before they start laying! My bag of 22% starter crumble says to feed until 8 weeks... but there’s nothing available at the feed store except that and layer? Everything else is a special order... well when I start up my meat bird production this spring I guess I’ll be making many special orders in the future!

 

[ChocolateMouse]

The 22% will probably make your chickens a lil fat, but otherwise would be fine. Since the problem is mostly high protein, maybe you can cut it with a bit of scratch. Purina brand scratch is 8% protein, so if you mixed one bag scratch with two bags of 22% you's get a 17.3% with a slightly lower fat content and that would probably be just about right. The scratch is also dramatically cheaper than the 22% would be so it might be a little more wallet friendly.

 

[Soon2BChixMom]

Here is a handy calculator to figure out the protein content if you mix feeds: http://www.metzerfarms.com/FeedConversion.cfm
The only way protein makes an animal (or person) fat is if they are eating a lot from fatty soucrces (cheese, meat, etc.) The source of the protein matters. Protein is a builder and repairer.
My birds aren't fat and they've been sustaining themselves on flock raiser which is 20% protein. I also give my birds access to oyster shell and crushed egg shell. My rooster looks at it when I fill the dish, but has no interest in it. What could make birds fat is feeding excess treats which should be less than 10% of their daily diet.
Some people feed their flocks game bird feed which is much higher in protein than flock raiser and they have no issues. The nice thing about having an all flock feed is that you don't have to worry about who is eating what feed.
We've been buying eggs from the store lately due to getting less eggs at this time of the year. The shells are much thinner as we have had a few mishaps with regards to cracking the store bought eggs.
I guess I no longer need to worry if my hens are getting enough calcium.
I am a proponent of researching before rushing in as I was on byc well before I got my first birds. What I have learned is that you do what is right for you and your flock. If you try something and it's not your style, then do what suits you. Good luck and enjoy your birds.

 

[GC-Raptor]

Purina brand scratch is 8% protein, so if you mixed one bag scratch with two bags of 22% you's get a 17.3% with a slightly lower fat content and that would probably be just about right.

The problem with mixing Scratch with Feed is the chickens will eat the Scratch and bill out the feed.
IMO, Never mix a treat with feed. GC

 

[ChocolateMouse]

The problem with mixing Scratch with Feed is the chickens will eat the Scratch and bill out the feed.
IMO, Never mix a treat with feed. GC

Ah, I only feed as much as my chickens will eat in any given day, so if there are leftovers they clearly weren't that hungry for them and they get a little less the next day until they're eating the whole thing regularly. It really depends on your husbandry I guess.

 

[GC-Raptor]

It really depends on your husbandry I guess.

Yeah, I provide unlimited access to feed. GC

 

[ChickenCanoe]

With roosters in particular, you don’t know you’ve got a problem until it’s too late. The calcium build up is accumulative and once it is there you can’t do much about it. In short it shortens the lives of roosters in particular by up to a third relative to a hen.
The same applies to older hens.
So saying people don’t have any problems feed layer feed doesn’t really mean much unless a) a necropsy is done at death, and b) the fowl live long enough for the effects to become critical.

Excellent post. I couldn't agree more.
If people would bite the bullet and get a necropsy when a bird dies suddenly, rather than shrugging or thinking 'old age', we would learn more.
Kidney damage can be determined with a home performed necropsy.