looking for OPINIONS on CAE

Discussion in 'Other Pets & Livestock' started by kinnip, Mar 27, 2009.

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  1. kinnip

    kinnip Chillin' With My Peeps

    Feb 24, 2008
    Carrollton, GA
    I know this can turn into an argument fast enough, so I'm eliciting opinions only. Should you have some documentation to support your opinion, please share it. Any input on the subject is welcome. Specifically, I'd like to know how many of you test for it and/or remove kids from dams.
     
  2. Goattalker

    Goattalker Chillin' With My Peeps

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    I test each year, and believe it is the best I can do. So far, so good. For me, selling a CAE postitive animal would just about shut down the farm. I would feel obligated to buy back the down line animals, unless they had been mixed within a CAE positive herd. I do not pull babies, and only bottle feed those who seem to need it.
     
  3. ksacres

    ksacres At Your Service

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    We have always tested negative. We bottle feed, but we use raw milk. If we had a test come back positive, we would pastuerize/heat treat/etc.

    Personally, CAE does not seem like the end of the world to me. There are things I'm much more scared of, like CL.

    Being CAE negative seems to be a nice selling point, but I *PERSONALLY* would not cull based on a test result.

    There are sooo many theories out there right now regarding CAE, the most recent I have seen is that a positive test for CAE does not mean the goat actually HAS CAE, merely that at some point they were exposed to the virus and have developed antibodies against it. Seems to me that's what you WANT to happen-resistance to a terrible disease, without the symptoms of disease. That's what happens with vaccines-they build antibodies but don't ACTUALLY have the disease.

    I *would* cull CAE + goats showing signs of the disease (horrible arthritis, recurrent mastitis/udder edema, kids convulsing, etc).

    We have tested, and will continue to test. If we ever have a positive, I guess we will cross that bridge when we come to it. It's easy to say what you would do when you've never been in that position.

    I know a gal that has ONE buck that's CAE positive, he lives with a buddy away from the rest of the herd, and she's never had one pop up positive from being bred to him.


    I would not feel obligated to buy back CAE positive animals. I am *always* willing to test at the buyer's expense before an animal leaves the property.
     
    Last edited: Mar 27, 2009
  4. kinnip

    kinnip Chillin' With My Peeps

    Feb 24, 2008
    Carrollton, GA
    Thanks. KS, that's pretty much my take on it. The info out there is so vague and the symptoms are so general that they could be caused by a number of things. Sometimes I wonder if CAE is a red herring. I don't disbelieve that there is a retrovirus called CAE. I'm just not convinced it's directly responsible for all the ills that are laid at its door. I'm also very leery of the ELISA tests. I'm trying to buy a doe right now. Her owner says that her test came back 'suspect'. She's decided to just cull the doe and her offspring. I told her I'd happily pay for another test, but she doesn't seem pleased with that idea. It just seems a little extreme to kill a beautiful doe for a 'suspect' result from a test known for its false positives.
     
  5. Goattalker

    Goattalker Chillin' With My Peeps

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    Mar 19, 2009
    The problem as I see it, is a goat will not typically test positive unless and until they have an active case. There may be evidence of exposure positive animals, I just haven't seen as yet. Regardless, a goat can be a carrier, pass it on to many generations, and still never show signs. The only way to manage it, in my opinion is to test, and back track if and when it happens. We have never had CL/CAE/Johne's on our farm. But if we had to pick one disease over another I would pick CL, it seldoms kills the goat, the other two are a different matter.
     
  6. ksacres

    ksacres At Your Service

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    Quote:That has only been seen to be the case with CL(the bacteria have to be isolated and cultured from an active abcess to be 100% accurate). CAE is a virus, if it's been in the goat's system, the goat will have antibodies against it, regardless of whether it has an "active" case. Hence the debate about whether a positive test is actually a positive animal.

    Quote:I must *respectfully* disagree with you on this. I have known of several herds (I'm on a few online goat sites) that are all CAE + (by test) that live healthy, long (10-12 years) and productive lives.

    The problem, as I see it, with CL, is that it's EXTREMELY contagious, and causes unsightly~and painful~blemishes on the goat's sensitive points.

    *MOST* of the time, CAE is only passed in the milk-lateral transmission doesn't happen very often. With CL, lateral transmission is almost gauranteed.

    One gentleman I know transported his goat with someone else's goat for a period of three hours. Three weeks later his goat popped with confirmed CL abscesses. I have never heard of that happening with CAE.

    I also know that many people get CAE and CL confused. CAE is Caprine Arthritis Encephalitis, CL is Caseous Lymphadenitis (I'm not saying you are, I'm just saying that I have had lots of people ask about "CAE abscesses")

    Of course, as it is right now, we don't have either (knock on wood), and my sincere hope is to never have to make a management decision that involves ANY of the diseases.
     
  7. Chirpy

    Chirpy Balderdash

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    I test yearly for CAE. I also won't buy a goat without a current CAE negative test. Although I understand the goat being a 'carrier' and not necessarily 'having' the disease; around here people have lost all hope of selling any goat once it's known they had a positive goat on their farm. I do all I can to keep my herd CAE negative as I'd rather not have to ever think about what to do if a goat was positive and just because of the stigma attached to that.

    This is my first year with kids being born - I'm not pulling them. I like momma's raising their babies if possible.
     
  8. Goattalker

    Goattalker Chillin' With My Peeps

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    CL is rampant in the Boer goat world, and as such is considered by many to be a pain in the neck but nothing more. It does not cause them to sell off/cull. So for me, while I figure I would be finished if any of the three popped up, the lesser of the evils would be CL. CL is spread via the pus from the abscess, no abscess, no spread, unless a goat has a case in their lungs (rather rare), and then in order to spread it, the goat only has to cough/sneeze and spew pus all over the place. Your friends goat was exposed in a trailer where no doubt the owner did not protect your friends goat, and/or where the trailer was not cleaned well enough to get rid of the virus.

    CAE on the other hand can be stopped in its tracks IF breeders pull kids, pasturize, and test their bucks. So for a dairy breeder, if they want to keep CAE positive animals, and they are willing to do the extra work, there is less of a chance of spread. Many well known dairy herds have CAE positive animals in their herds. I would note however, that there has been a study that points to bodily fluid exchange via snot and sneezing that supports airborne transmission. I can't speak to the validity of the study, I only point out that you can find it online by doing a search of University papers on CAE.
     
    Last edited: Mar 27, 2009
  9. ThornyRidge

    ThornyRidge Chillin' With My Peeps

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    My two cents: I feel that because this is so controversial the debates will always continue and there will always be conflicting sides/information and opinions. As with anything there is still so much that is unknown about the disease and people refer to "cases" and research and again we know that not everything is cookie cutter. I have a very small closed herd and have not tested for CAE, however, I have only purchased animals from breeders who do test and have tested negative. But again the testing is so controversial too.. lots of false postives out there..I think responsible breeders should not knowingly risk introduction to their herds nor try to minimize this very serious disease, however, I think too it is up to the buyer to be responsible too and do their homework and be aware of all the risks associated with goats-not just CAE!!
     
  10. cutiepieacres

    cutiepieacres Chillin' With My Peeps

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    S. CA
    I test all my does and bucks and have always come back negative. Its easy enough to do so I just figure its worth it. We dont pull any kids on purpose but bottle feed if needed. I am not sure I would cull a positive animal but they definatley would be pulled out of breeding.
     
    Last edited: Mar 27, 2009
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