May trade for a new horse thoughts please?

[patandchickens]

Quote:
If you are comfortably able to be in the price bracket where it is *possible* to look at one horse and buy that horse, sure.

However, I can entirely entirely sympathize with people who aren't able to, because I've sometimes BEEN one of those people. If realistically you have to be looking at $3-4k horses to have some reasonable faith that they are sane-ish and sound-ish for your purposes, and what you've got is $1k or a bit more, as long as you HAVE the time and energy to spend, you can do quite a considerable amount of phoning and driving out to look at horses and still (once you finally find the *one* cheap-but-suitable horse out there) come out a whole lot financially ahead. (This presupposes that you can recognize cheap-but-suitable from cheap-and-a-bad-idea-all-round, of course)

The first horse I ever actually owned, when I got my first real job (after grad school) in '93, I paid $700 (just above meat price at the time) and I will quote his ad in full for you: "dk bay TB 7 yrs has raced". He turned out to be a former graded-stakes winner, very lightly raced off the farm, entirely sound, a bit snarky to work with on the ground but very rideable, fairly talented for dressage, and an EXCELLENT teacher (when you did something wrong with your aids he would just stop and wait til you were speaking sense again, then proceed). He was given to his exercise rider when he was no longer able to place in stakes races, instead of being sent down to the claimers; and she just wanted to find him a good home (and quit having to pay board on him <g>). Best $700 I ever spent. Unfortunately he literally dropped dead in his tracks one day just after turning 10 from a ruptured aneurysm but of course there was no foreseeing that.

Naturally I have also looked at probably hundreds of horses that *deserved* their low price. Many of them alarming, some downright-disturbing. And when I have *had* a good chunk of change to lay out, so that I could just shop in a price range that was composed largely of the type of horses I was looking for, that of course is much nicer

Still, I do not think there is anything wrong with panning for little flecks of gold amongst the mine tailings, as long as you've got time and stomach for it, and as long as you have the sense to wait for the actual gold to chance to turn up. (Which, I have to say, it sounds to me like the o.p. DOES have that self-control and patience, which is fairly uncommon and nice to see

)

JMHO,

Pat

 

[welsummerchicks]

Sure Pat, but what I'm suggesting is to TRY VERY HARD to actually physically go look at very, very few horses. I realize it's not always possible, 'cause as Ron White said, 'I know it can happen, 'cause I've seen me do it'.

But I think it's a very good idea to try very hard to aim that way, though.

For example, all of the horses the OP has posted here, do not come even close to fitting her own self declared criteria that she stated here. There's no point in considering such horses, asking about them, thinking about going to look at them. They aren't appropriate. I think many people go look at inappropriate horses.

"It is very expensive and aggravating, but sadly horses frequently are misrepresented"

To some extent, depends on who you buy from and how you sound when you call or email or come by. Up to a point, one can control it, though.

Hound is right in that most people cover up the problems of the horse. But as I said before, I expect them to. I have to see what the horse is, but in most cases, the inappropriate horses can be eliminated over the phone.

I would encourage most people to limit themselves to looking ONLY at one type of horse, one set of criteria, and never, ever vary it no matter what pops up or what cute horsey picture someone sends them. The horse must be between age 10-14, gelding or mare, shown in local shows in Western Pleasure classes, ridden on trails in group trail rides 6 or more times, has gone horse camping at least six times, has been shown by a novice child the same age as my child. OR SOMETHING. But stick to it, very, very strictly - size, gender (if you must), age, amount of training. Don't go see ANYTHING that doesn't meet that criteria.

I'd recommend stick to driving no more than an hour one way to look at a family or pleasure horse. I would encourage them to think of buying a horse from an instructor, trainer or owner who they know and trust and have dealt with.

Ideally, they know the horse, have seen it many times and know how it behaves on local trails, at local shows because they have SEEN IT. Being ridden by children like the one they want to buy a horse for, being ridden by adults that are just like them. They are much better off getting a horse that way, than getting a horse they have never seen and can't really be sure of what it is, from some unknown person on the internet.

If you do buy off the internet, please still try to stick close to your home area to avoid expensive trips. Ask if others have bought horses from this person. Search other websites that sell horses for the same horse(name, description, etc), and see if you can find 'cached' versions of the ad, so you have a history, and can see 1.) how long the horse has been for sale 2.) if the price has changed over time. Many horses are overpriced so with them you can't be surprised if the price drops over time. But if the horse is for sale for what is an expected price and drops below THAT over time...beware. Also beware of horses that are advertised for different prices on different websites at the same time. Be sure to look at the dates on ads, how many times they have been expired and renewed, etc.

Be sure to determine how many horses the person is selling, and how long those horses were for sale. Make sure the buyer mostly tends to sell the type of horse you're interested in. Ask on internet horse boards, if anyone can vouch for the seller.

Get a picture of the person. See if they have any 'wanted' ads out there at the same time. A novice who's selling his dear horse and also advertising at the same time, something like 'Horse wanted, MUST BE QUIET' is selling that horse because it is not quiet enough for her.

A pinhooker? Most people in a given area know EXACTLY who these people are. We've got ones around here who have been at it for thirty years or more. We know who they are. When I was at the trainer's barn, we had about one novice a week stopping in to say, 'I got a horse from this lady over on Slap Neck Road and I when I got it home it started....'

A trainer who actually puts some time and work into the horses? Expect to pay more, expect it might be a little bit better.

"I guess what I was trying to say to the OP was if it doesn't sound good in the advertisement more than likely it will be worse in person."

A good general rule.

"There's a lot more exaggeration than there is underselling."

A good general rule that applies to anything that gets sold. But I don't bother to listen to anything they say so I don't give a poop if they oversell.

" I've had incidents when I really have wondered whether the horse i'm being shown is the one I have talked to them about, and i'm not alone. "

Depends on who it is. That's why it's not a good idea to answer any/all ads, but to find out who it is that's selling the horse, how many they sell and buy, what their business is, why they are. Don't 'Buy a Horse', 'Buy from A Person'. And how others have done buying from them - which is hard unless you know the person, because even the most conniving shyster always has a few satisfied customers....

Usually the problem with ads is the person isn't plugged into the local scene, they're coming in from outside the area. And they don't know the person or what's going on in that part of the world. It's a lot better to buy from someone who you've known for a long time and know how they operate.

:You can quiz a person upside down about it, but the 'little quirks' aren't alluded to until you're there and see them for yourself and ask about them, or the seller spontaneously mentions it when they didn't think it was relevant before".

I don't make those trips to that kind of seller, in general.

"The dog gentle horse becomes dog gentle except for days with a 'T'."

I start out by assuming no horse is 'bombproof', no horse is 'dog gentle' every day, and no horse is 100% anything every day. I'm a lot happier that way.

" He's great except for... What they meant to say was he WILL make a dog gentle horse... once someone has ridden the buck out of him."

Let them rattle on a little more on the phone, and they tell you who they are, and you get rid of those.

"It is totally aggravating because it is just a waste of time."

It doesn't have to always be. You show up with a vet, a trainer and a trailer, and act businesslike, and don't scream, 'Oh my God she's ADORABLE' when they lead the horse out, it goes better.

There is a way to talk on the phone too. I'm not too bad, but a friend of mine is much better at it than I am. She just acts dumb and cheerful and people just PRATTLE on and it's hysterical. I've asked for lessons.

The more knowledgeable they think you are (or the person with you is) the less stupid stuff they're going to try to pull on you. Some people will always try to pull SOMETHING, but again, why buy from them?

If you ask very specific, pointed questions, and put them in the position of either lying or telling the truth, really, you actually INVITE THEM TO LIE, they tend to realize you're giving them a CHOICE, and that you are pretty knowledgeable about what people lie about when selling horses.

'Is there anything about this horse that would prevent him from being suitable for a novice child rider with one year of lessons, who is just learning to post the trot?' They usually realize they're getting set up.

It has been my experience, that the most dishonest horse seller is the private seller who is getting out of horses or doesn't figure he'll be selling any more any time soon, and doesn't care about his/her reputation or what anyone thinks of him.

The second most dishonest one is the small time local pro(trainer instructor or small time dealer), who figures that if the horse doesn't work out, she'll convince you it's your fault.

Don't try to be their friend or pal up to them hoping that will make them be nicer to you than they are to anyone else. They don't have no friends when it comes to business.

 

[hollyclyff]

and see if you can find 'cached' versions of the ad,

This is a good idea. I avoided looking at several horses by finding old ads with information that made the horses unsuitable, but was left out of the current ads and phone conversations. And by finding other ads by the same seller that made me question their integrity, etc.

I had heard all about how there were all these free and ultra cheap good horses out there, but I didn't find them when I was looking and I looked for months. Found the free and ultra cheap horses, but the "good" was the hard part of that equation. I ended up spending a little more to get two good horses that I'm happy with. One of mine was never advertised, I bought her from a friend of a friend.​

 

[hollyclyff]

and see if you can find 'cached' versions of the ad,

This is a good idea. I avoided looking at several horses by finding old ads with information that made the horses unsuitable, but was left out of the current ads and phone conversations. And by finding other ads by the same seller that made me question their integrity, etc.

I had heard all about how there were all these free and ultra cheap good horses out there, but I didn't find them when I was looking and I looked for months. Found the free and ultra cheap horses, but the "good" was the hard part of that equation. I ended up spending a little more to get two good horses that I'm happy with. One of mine was never advertised, I bought her from a friend of a friend.​

 

[arabianequine]

I have only went an actually looked at the first 2 horses and all the rest have been questions to them. Always has been something to not go any further. In saying that I post pics or ads of horses because I admittedly need help. I am in no hurry and will keep looking. I do appreciate all your help and opinions. The last few horses posted I contacted them and heard back from one and said it was only 1000 pounds and too small for me. I am pretty sure it was that mustang. The ones on "dream" I could not figure how to enter the number but did a search for around where I live and responded to to 1 or 2 but heard nothing as of yet.

 

[welsummerchicks]

To search by horse ID, click on 'Horse ID Search'.

The searches listed on the home page are, in order, Advanced Search, Bloodline Search, Browse Breed/State, Horse ID Search.

Horse ID is the 4th search choice, the choices are listed in the top center of the home page.

I put in a lot of work on your behalf, going through a large number of horses and narrowing down, to get those ID's. I'd say I put in about 5 1/2 hrs work on it.

I really hesitate to advise people to put their confidence in cached ads and making conclusions based on what's on the internet. There is no substitute for having someone more experienced along. There never will be. I can give tips to those who won't bring someone else along, but they're just as likely to be misunderstood as to help.

An experienced person takes the situation, the horse, and adds it all up and makes some sense of it. If you're lucky, the 'experienced person' you bring along, just happens to be more experienced than the person selling the horse....and a little more savvy.

In general, novices tend to avoid GOOD horses more than they avoid bad horses. They get put off by the wrong things, are suspicious of things they don't need to be suspicious of.

As an example, one gal shopping for her daughter, hit the ceiling when a horse she was looking at, arrived for the ride with polo wraps on. 'There has to be something wrong with his legs!' She went ballistic and refused to look at the horse. The rider tried to explain she put wraps on every horse she rode, to protect against bumps and bangs and dirt thrown up by other horses. No matter, it said (on a bulletin board, LOL) that horses are only wrapped to hide things from the buyer, done, finished. In fact, she was at a sport horse barn where if she looked around, she'd see there wasn't a single horse in the ring not wearing polo wraps.

Another gal arrived at our barn to say she wasn't getting 'a horse with tulip ears'. It was a horse we all knew very well, a 10 year old 'been there done that' grade QH cross that her daughter had tried out and got on perfectly with, a horse that had 'brought up' a number of neighbor kids, toted them around the outdoor hunt course, done basic dressage and a whole lot more.

All based on advice from well meaning people - that might be true in some situations, or perhaps even no situations. The 'tulip shaped ears' were supposed to betray horses with those evil 'Arabian' genes, and we all know all Arabs never make kid's horses(LOL). Only problem is, Quarter Horses and many other breeds have that shape ear quite routinely; it doesn't indicate what breeding an animal has. Polo wraps might be suspicious looking at SOME barns, but not sport horse barns.

No one who sells a horse is going to be loved by everyone. You will hear dirt about everyone in the horse business, whether they deserve it or not. Horse people gossip a lot. You won't know what's significant and what isn't. To top it off, almost every dealer has a bad horse to unload once in a while, that doesn't mean they never sell a good one. It just means you need to be able to tell the difference.

Novices also tend to ignore local resources. They don't want to buy locally, horses they've seen before and are familiar with, or buy from people they know. They don't want to buy from local dealers or instructors or trainers. A good part of that is the psychology of novice buying. But it is wise to use local resources and local people, and stick to people you know.

 

[Rusty Hills Farm]

Well, WC, I looked at your ads and I really liked the next to the last one:

"Chief" has been to the ocean, to the mountains, or just around the block. He is not afraid of anything. He'll go through water, pull logs etc. Chief is real good on the ground, easy to shoe, clipper trim, easily takes worm medicine, accepts fly spray, etc. Ties to the trailer and hauls well with other horses.

He's listed as a 16.2 palomino paint gelding weighing about 1100 lbs. He's in Kennewick, Washington and listed for $1800. A really nice looking animal with a good bloodline behind him. Certainly one to look into!

Rusty​

 

[pbjmaker]

So in a couple of years when I get an acerage and go to buy a horse - I am taking Patsandchickens and wellsummerchicks with me

I just keep reading these threads for now and absorbing information...

 

[arabianequine]

@welsummerchicks are you local? just kidding.....if I ever find one I think I should pursue looking at in person I will take someone with me. I will try and look those ids up again. I do appreciate you taking the time to look those horses up for me.....I thought I said that.....thank you!

That horses weight is not enough for me right "rusty"? I need a 1300 pound horse at least don't I or does it have to do with the legs again.

lol @ pbjmaker

Yeah me too....but they are not local to me I am sure.

 

[arabianequine]

K I got it now....what was happening is I was doing an advanced search. I was using the saved link in my bookmark that was going to advance search.....never the home page. I did find the search by horse id real easy on the home page. Thank you!